Grappler = could ruin this game

Oh no, save me from the grappler!

Again, I ask the people who are screaming LEAVE THE GRAPPLER ALONE, what did changing it to 15 ammo do exactly?

You say it's a balanced tool, but obviously the devs didn't agree hence the reason ammo was added. Now that ammo is added, what has changed?

People very rarely run out of ammo for it on Cavern? :shrug:

Again, I ask the people who are screaming LEAVE THE GRAPPLER ALONE, what did changing it to 15 ammo do exactly?

You say it's a balanced tool, but obviously the devs didn't agree hence the reason ammo was added. Now that ammo is added, what has changed?
Makes it more difficult for grapple standoffs if the enemy team is putting constant pressure on the capper. The capper would have to hit the inventory at least once during a standoff to keep it going. Had it stayed at unlimited ammo then obviously that would not be the case.

blah blah blah
anyone who thinks the grappler could use some tweaking seems to just be whining, or unable to adapt, or needs an attitude adjustment

its not possible there could actually be something WRONG

its pointless, ive given up and become a grapple whore myself, woohoo, luv gettin home untouched and swinging around for the next 5 minutes

the other day i had a funny moment

the enemy fc was swinging round the wires on cavern
so i decided todo the same thing on the same wire only it was counterclockwise

now we both started chaining like mad haha lol
this lasted about a whole minute then we ran out of chain, we proceeded with discs but a damn def killed me with a buckler

bah the man had no sense ,spoiled it

:confused:
I have no idea what you are talking about.

you said that if organized defense and / or the lone defensive player can't stop a grappler capper then they suck/haven't adapted.

(I assume your team has an organized defense.)

you then post about how the game is all about offense cordination and returning flags on enemy side of the map in the scrim. Basically saying defense is fairly pointless.

I logically assume since you put such an importance on Offense the defense will be weaker in order to beat the other teams D and playing D is obviously the easiest thing to do in the world unless you are just effing suck.

the 2nd post i quoted is about the scrim and returning flags on the enemy side of the map. so either A) your defense players obviously suck/havn't adapted by your own logic since they couldn't keep the flag on the stand or B) D isn't as easy as you seem to make it out to be in your first post that i quoted.

note high levels of sarcasm in this post and was merely pointing out your post seemed to contridict each other and really too tired to make it completely logical.

Stupid responses:

*Learn to use it!
*Learn to counter it!
*It's the community's fault for not liking it!

All this butt sex going on with some of you people and the development team isn't warranted. If something presents a problem, you don't complain to the players, the people shelling out money, to remedy or ignore it. You also don't blindly acknowledge the whims of the development team as superior: they're a very tiny percentage of the future community and are subject to mistakes and bad decisions. T:V is not a perfect game. If all you have to say is "don't badmouth the game," then don't even bother posting.

The grappler may or may not be unbalanced. If you don't think it's unbalanced, post WHY instead of grabbing the KY lube and taking the next flight to Australia. Lord.

Makes it more difficult for grapple standoffs if the enemy team is putting constant pressure on the capper. The capper would have to hit the inventory at least once during a standoff to keep it going. Had it stayed at unlimited ammo then obviously that would not be the case.

Not really. 15 ammo is a lot for the grappler. I've still seen 5+ minute stand offs because the person runs out of ammo then goes to an invenentory station and comes out grappling some more. Add to that the 5 other people usually defending on a pub and it can be difficult to stop.

Being able to stay in the air indefinitely is not good in a Tribes game. Nearly all the weapons are slow moving projectiles and benefit greatly from being able to hit your opponent with the splash damage. If this was Quake and there was a railgun, it wouldn't be an issue. The sniper rifle is the closest thing and well it's not that great to use offensively while jetting around trying to catch a grappler.

Chaining works somewhat decently, but again it's difficult chaining a person who's changing directions every 5 seconds.

Some people say burner and that suffers from the same problem as the sniper rifle. It's difficult to use offensively because it uses the same energy pool as the jetpack.

The only way to stop a good grappler is to have 3 or 4 people all attacking him and well that doesn't happen often on a pub.

It might be balanced in competition, but if this game is going to survive it's going to have to be less tedious in a pub, and sometimes pubbing in this game feels like work.

Not really. 15 ammo is a lot for the grappler. I've still seen 5+ minute stand offs because the person runs out of ammo then goes to an invenentory station and comes out grappling some more. Add to that the 5 other people usually defending on a pub and it can be difficult to stop.
That time in which he has to go to an inventory is when he's most vulnerable. Especially on a map like cavern where the inventory is in a small confined space. Makes it easy to spam grenades, mortars, etc. Constant offensive pressure on a grappling flag carrier forces him to use it more often making them run out of ammo quicker. I've seen it happen many times not only to myself but to others. Depends on the skill of the grappler I suppose but most of the time if you're good enough you should be able to take him out.

with 15 grapples a flag carrier can grapple around on cavern for like 5 minutes without the inventory station and the only thing you can do is chain/osnipe him
its pretty difficult to chain a grappler going 145 behind a bunch of pillars much less burner him

That time in which he has to go to an inventory is when he's most vulnerable. Especially on a map like cavern where the inventory is in a small confined space. Makes it easy to spam grenades, mortars, etc. Constant offensive pressure on a grappling flag carrier forces him to use it more often making them run out of ammo quicker. I've seen it happen many times not only to myself but to others. Depends on the skill of the grappler I suppose but most of the time if you're good enough you should be able to take him out.

yea well it still takes 5 mins before he even needs an inv
also u can pick up ammo and health off of dead bodies

in a match, you can just hand off and never need the inv at all

5 minute standoffs = stupid

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Proximus
i will say this again

remove the 'click to release' is the best solution by far
because the grapple will reel in as long as u press mouse button all the way upto the ceiling in case of cavern, making u a sitting duck and thus forcing u to release mouse (then grapple releases) this will make the ammo count
very simple
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You sir, effing own. This is exactly what I have been saying since day 1.


I totally agree. You want some dynamic gameplay, this is it! plus make all armor types have one as a extra (4th) weapon slot.

That time in which he has to go to an inventory is when he's most vulnerable. Especially on a map like cavern where the inventory is in a small confined space. Makes it easy to spam grenades, mortars, etc. Constant offensive pressure on a grappling flag carrier forces him to use it more often making them run out of ammo quicker. I've seen it happen many times not only to myself but to others. Depends on the skill of the grappler I suppose but most of the time if you're good enough you should be able to take him out.

the scenario which you describe is retarded and unfun, despite the trueness

NOT FUN

standoffs are the worst part of CTF and tribes in general

it is more fun to duel in the midfield over a flag bouncing around in T2 base, where the capper got owned because D was overpowered, than it is to play another damn standoff under any circumstances

there is such a thing as too much mobility and the grappler gives us too much mobility.

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Proximus
i will say this again

remove the 'click to release' is the best solution by far
because the grapple will reel in as long as u press mouse button all the way upto the ceiling in case of cavern, making u a sitting duck and thus forcing u to release mouse (then grapple releases) this will make the ammo count
very simple
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






I totally agree. You want some dynamic gameplay, this is it! plus make all armor types have one as a extra (4th) weapon slot.

If I understand this right you are saying that the grapple will only pull you in, so that you can't swing with it at a constant length.

If the grapple still pulls you in at the rate it does now, that will change almost nothing. yes it will change people who litterally swing in circles on cavern, but those people are not the problem.

The problem is capper mobility out in the open.

Currently when I grapple I almost always pull myself in to gain speed the entire time...all this change will do is prevent people from doing 3-4 loops in a row. It won't take away the ability to change direction on a dime and won't fix the balance problem.

You COULD increase the rate it pulls you at and truly make it like the quake grapple (which pulled you in very quickly compared to the TV grapple) and that would do a little bit to change 180 degree turns. It will still just depend on how fast we're talking though

personally I would just make it break under (150miles/hour-second * M) tension where M is the mass of a light armor. Basically what this means is that when a light is going 150mph and grapples something directly behind him, the rope will break. Any less speed and it will not break. I think that would be a good number.

The funny thing is I said the exact same thing back when the idea of the grapple first came out. Litterally the exact thing. It has to break under high speeds or it unbalances the game. Grapple should be an ammo-less tool for use at low speeds. (note: ammo-less grapple would then be balanced)

i guess this just proves that everyone should listen to me all the time :p

If something presents a problem, you don't complain to the players, the people shelling out money, to remedy or ignore it. ... T:V is not a perfect game.

Never said it was. [BETA] Obviously, input from the community is incredibly important if they want the game to be successful. My comments were directed at outrageous posts by people that haven't really given something new a chance.

But... wtf... what's wrong with butt sex? Leave butt sex out of this.

yes removing the click to release is to solve swing around problem

The quake grapple was freaking sweet. I was very dissapointed when I used the T:V grapple, after having built it up in my mind as being like the Q1 grapple.

the scenario which you describe is retarded and unfun, despite the trueness

NOT FUN

standoffs are the worst part of CTF and tribes in general

it is more fun to duel in the midfield over a flag bouncing around in T2 base, where the capper got owned because D was overpowered, than it is to play another damn standoff under any circumstances

there is such a thing as too much mobility and the grappler gives us too much mobility.
Well standoffs happen in CTF in any game. I'd rather have intense standoffs than just each team taking turns tearing off 5 sec caps.

5 sec caps directly lead to standoffs..i don't get the point you're making