T:V loosing interest? Player count drops rapidly.

Sure might be fun to repair the base a couple of times, but doing it all game long is...

And that's where the defense part comes in. I can't think of a map that couldn't be adequately defended with just a couple of decent players.

I haven't been playing the beta much lately, that's for sure. Part of it is because the game seems to be fickle about how long it will run. Sometimes I can get away with several hours, other days I give up after the third hardlock in 15 minutes.

But I also haven't played as much since my initial positive impression of the game has gone waaaaay down. I'm kind of pleased that much of the autotracking turret nuisance is gone, but I'm also not happy that so many packs/weapons etc were removed. I want targeting laser / beacons back :(

I'm also not sure why the vehicles are even in the game. They suck to drive or fly, their respawn is so erratic that you can't really base much in the way of a strategy off them, and they're not fun to fight either. The T1 scout, which I consider a mediocre vehicle, was at least fun to fly and pretty satisfying to MA when some doofus was trying to spam you with rockets. The TV vehicles are disgusting. Remove them or make them fun and useful.

I could probably ignore all of this except for the last thing - the grappling hook. This is another toy that I was looking forward to the most, but quickly realized I hated it. I don't enjoy using it, and I don't like how it has changed the game. Many skiing changes implemented by the dev team seem targeted at artificially boosting the necessity of the grappler. And unlike in T2, where you had plenty of maps without having to deal with overpowered vehicles, you cannot escape the grappler in TV. This is the biggest thing that has ruined the game for me.

When I picked up the Tribes demo in September of '99, I got my ass handed to me for a month straight. I played the demo, the effing demo with just three maps, for two months before getting the full version (I'd been drooling over a friend's copy since the previous March, not realizing I could simply copy it). My enjoyment reached a new crescendo every week as my skill improved and I learned new things about the game.

With the beta, my enjoyment has dropped progressively. I'll still buy the game, but I'm beginning to doubt I will play it. I can't really see liking the game even if the Dev's implement many of the great suggestions that have been posted in the forums lately, or even if they give the grappler a big nerf. So I'll quit shaking my crybaby stick now and just sigh a couple more times :P

And that's where the defense part comes in. I can't think of a map that couldn't be adequately defended with just a couple of decent players.

A heavy can "ski" most maps in under 20 sec(maybe even faster), and he just needs a couple of seconds to blow up the generator... Try stoping 2 or 3 of these guys doing the same thing over and over...

Thats what happens when you remove all the skillfull aspects of a game and try to make it more "newbie" friendly. Easy to learn and hard to master was always the strong point of the previous tribes games, T:V on the other hand doesnt seem like it has much to offer.

By the way, anyone who is saying its because the t:v demo only has 4 Maps.
The Tribes1 Demo only had 1 CTF Map (Raindance iirc) and still had many players for a long time. They even had a community for demo only players (O.o) with ladders and what not.

Sims 2.

Thats what happens when you remove all the skillfull aspects of a game and try to make it more "newbie" friendly. Easy to learn and hard to master was always the strong point of the previous tribes games, T:V on the other hand doesnt seem like it has much to offer.

Lol.

the game is too hard for noobs to pick up and own at so they go back to their noob games.

You are right smaq

I almost want to say "I told you so" about the grapple..i remember you were one of the big supporters of the idea

There are a lot of details that have been neglected which people assumed would be present..and now that they're gone they are badly missedYeah, I had seen the grapple back in the day when I played Quake2 LMCTF and it rocked there. In T:V though alot of people who otherwise couldn't ski or do much on the field can use the grappling hook to gain alot of speed and turn on a dime. Without the line breaking due to the excessive pressure put on it, this will do nothing but kill the game imho.

Perhaps put a limit on the grapple of 3-5 rather than 20 and see if it fixes things? Or just wait until tvcomp mutator is created and kill off the grapple altogether.

adding my 2c to this thread... remember when VU releases T1 and T2 for free, yet dispite large number of downloads, the community didn't see an obvious increase in players?

It's not about, whether the games are outdated, good gameplay is still, good gameplay. The free releases have prolly seem many new players in tribes, but most are unable to find interest in the shooting that exisit in tribes.

Online gaming have changed, we'd moved from quakeworld to games that are slower, with semi-realistic hitscans. Thing is tribe isn't a game newbirds can flock into and shoot each other without mastering the basics... and also dispite that T;V is one with the easiliest learning curve, it's still takes time for players to get used to the non hitscan combat environment.


Exactly...

Q3 never game me the same excitement and rush as QW did. Not because it was bad it was actually an improvement on QW in terms of weapon balance. But the nostalgia of experiencing Quake for the first time was gone.

If this is your first Tribes game there is plenty to learn and master. If it isn't you already know most of it except for grappler, rocketpod and buckler. If they made it so different that you had to relearn everything then ppl would all be complaining that its not Tribes. In fact the whiners already do. However in the same breath they complain that it offers nothing new.

Tribes community killed itself a long time ago.

So the game is too easy, but newbs suck at it and get pissed off. There's not all the little annoying BS of T2 (super powerful turrets, SL, etc.), but there's not enough depth to keep the game going. It's using an old, boring gametype CTF, but people still like the old, boring DM. WTF is IG thinking!??!?! :rolleyes:

Tribes will never be a mainstream game because CS tards don't want to learn how to fly with non-hitscan weapons.

Really? I know when the Q3 demo hit, it was huge. I don't remember much drop-off. Same with the BF42 demo. Even with one map it was played by a consistently high number of people.
.

q3 demo was bugless from what i remember.

yeah except this isnt a demo its a beta.

yeah except this isnt a demo its a beta.

yeah thats the point i was making.

i sort of wish they had put this on the steam platform so we could get updates as they did them, but no dev answers to that, and maybe theres redtape associated with it, it might be a valve product only.

but on the issue of longevity,
i think writer makes a good point on the cartoony-ness of the new game vs. t1 realism and even realism of the gaming worlds most popular games right now, ww2 sims and cs. there is grit there, and a captivating environment.

i hadn't realized till he said it, but t:v really does feel like fantasy and less like actual people.. i dont know what they could do to change that, maybe alter colors/models? dunno.

soundwise the game continues to be terrible, there is no ambient sound, there is no sound outdoors vs. indoors, everything is loud and obnoxious and continues to sound fake, the disc launcher set of sounds beng the absolute worst. i would suggest to the dev team to contract the d3 team immediately for their sound dude, and after he's done, give it to the cs guy for his outdoor ambient sounds. (and we'll drop in the q3 hit sounds)

i've already made suggestions to ski boots which owuld make the game have "more depth" as well as other changes, so I'll leave that there,
http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325126

but what I do want to say is, its sad hearing people echo the thoughts i've had on the subject too. i want the game to have more depth, more mystery.

maybe open beta maps dont do much for having that, some cooler larger maps appear to be tucked away for the retail version. however, they have been good for discovering bugs.

my advice to the dev team is to listen to the people for their annoyances. the bugs seem to have been addressed speedily, but its also the annoyances that will kill a game.

netcode

Perhaps put a limit on the grapple of 3-5 rather than 20 and see if it fixes things? Or just wait until tvcomp mutator is created and kill off the grapple altogether.

Now that's a game I would play.

i don't know, I find the pod incredibly useful to put on the flag to block inc cappers :shrug:

Just release the game now and let the community fix your obvious lack of game-making ability please. Ty.


T1 was a gem, a jewel that held years of fun. T2 was diamond in the rough; An ok game once you cleaned all the dirty bugs off of it. TV is a beach ball; round, easy to throw and boring to use after 10 minutes.

I remember reading a news-release about how taking all the packs away and such would open the game up to a bigger crowd of "newbies" so-to-speak. What they neglected to mention, was that in the process of making it easier for newer players, you effed up the original game that everyone loved. As every post should include constructive critiscm, here is my constructive part; You messed up the game and say its "to late" to fix what needs to be fixed now. Release it, and the tribes modders and etc will fix it for you. You've made a good graphics game, now let us make it a good gameplay game. Thank you.

Just release the game now and let the community fix your obvious lack of game-making ability please. Ty.


T1 was a gem, a jewel that held years of fun. T2 was diamond in the rough; An ok game once you cleaned all the dirty bugs off of it. TV is a beach ball; round, easy to throw and boring to use after 10 minutes.

I remember reading a news-release about how taking all the packs away and such would open the game up to a bigger crowd of "newbies" so-to-speak. What they neglected to mention, was that in the process of making it easier for newer players, you effed up the original game that everyone loved. As every post should include constructive critiscm, here is my constructive part; You messed up the game and say its "to late" to fix what needs to be fixed now. Release it, and the tribes modders and etc will fix it for you. You've made a good graphics game, now let us make it a good gameplay game. Thank you.

do you paint your fingernails black and listen to nin?

Yeah, I had seen the grapple back in the day when I played Quake2 LMCTF and it rocked there. In T:V though alot of people who otherwise couldn't ski or do much on the field can use the grappling hook to gain alot of speed and turn on a dime. Without the line breaking due to the excessive pressure put on it, this will do nothing but kill the game imho.

Perhaps put a limit on the grapple of 3-5 rather than 20 and see if it fixes things? Or just wait until tvcomp mutator is created and kill off the grapple altogether.

Ammo limit of 3-5 would probably be the most elegant solution, but it will still have changed the face of capping.

There is not a single terrain based cap route that cannot be replicated faster, safer and more efficiently using the grapple. Not a single one.

The other thing is the epack boost though. It's a free, non-health based DJ every 15 seconds and while originally I tried to avoid it in my routes (so I don't depend on it) it's obvious now that making everything I do totally epack boost centered is just a massive advantage. If I can't get my epack I might as well not leave the base because as a capper I would be very very substandard.

I wish they would kill the epack boost entirely, or maybe just make it boost you straight up instead of the direction you're going. Then at least you'd still need routes/grapple to give you speed in the direction you want.

One thing I think they could do is make the grapple a medium/heavy only weapon. For capping at least, this would make a distinction between a light route capper going 300kph and a medium grapple capper who can dodge really well but has to go slower. To be honest though, I think this would probably just make light armor obsolete for capping :p

epack boost has changed skiing forever, grapple has changed capping forever

edit: also, when I heard about the grapple in TV, I was wondering whether they'd make it a reel-in fishline thing or a tarzan vine swinging thing. If it was a very elastic fishline that pulls you towards it, which only worked at low speeds that would not be so bad, because then it would just be a compliment to the slow jets when you're going slow. You could shoot a wall and pull yourself up to it at low speeds..that is not overpowered. Then when you try at high speeds to do a 180 turn it would break.

Making it BOTH a slingshot and a vine though, AND which works at high speeds under nearly any tension, was a terrible idea and I honestly never believed for a second they'd do THAT. haha.

And THEN, they went and let you apply extra forces just for having a grapple in place. The amount of air control armor has in the game (without jetting. I mean just moving around in freefall) lets you apply forces from nowhere. These are just extra forces that good players can use to their advantage everytime they hook a grapple onto something. I bet the devs don't even realise they are there and they've just been held over from UT2K4. (Think about how much air control you have on low-grav maps in UT2K4. You have that same kind of control in T:V. Not so in other tribes games.)

This also actually makes it really easy to nail routes perfectly, because you don't need jets to correct for hitting a jump poorly. Just get in the air over your jump, freefall and use the mid-air manuvering to nail the jump perfectly without jetting.

That takes away a lot, because in the other games a perfect capper was distinguished because he could hit those jumps perfectly without using jets to adjust (which slows you down). Now everyone can hit them and they don't need jets.

I think most non-cappers don't notice these subtleties and how major their effect is on the game but they are going to notice when every capper figures out how to exploit all these new powers we've been given. It's already beginning in pubs now which seem to end up in permanent standoff mode because no one can possibly kill a capper that has

1) free DJ every 15 seconds
2) infinite power of direction control
3) extreme air control that requires no jets to nail jumps perfectly each time
4) "bonus" forces where you can get acceleration using the aforementioned air control in conjunction with the grapple. UT2k4 style air control, where you can move around like nuts, combined with the grapple, means you can move around like nuts while grappling and no jets are required. This is free acceleration. This is asking to be exploited. The grapple + air control gives cappers a huge advantage over chasers because it's a "weapon-based" speed which chasers can't use since their weapons are supposed to be killing weapons, not "mobility weapons"

God what a rant. I should just shut up and lead by example so we can get the community to fix this stuff faster and we don't have to learn the power of the grapple/epack boost from 5150 when they own everyone who is still using T1 techniques. You can always count on 5150 to exploit the broken parts of the game so badly the game is no longer fun and we can get that shazbot fixed :D

Seems like T:V's harshest critics are from the T2 camp. Let's see, we no longer have concs, whiteouts, heat seeking rockets, lance, cameras, cloak pack, 2 types of deployable turrets and sensors, satchel, and in the case of Classic, the most newbiefied and easy skiing ever seen in tribes.

In my opinion, T:V has stripped away a lot of the fluff and stupidness that was in T2. Don't get me wrong, I played T2 and enjoyed it, but T:V seems to be more conducive to competitive play to me. I'm looking forward to ladder play after the retail release.

Now hopefully, the tourney mode, admin functions, DEMOS, non regs, server control and netcode will be fixed/improved for the gold release.

Edit: omg, word filter is out of control.