The more I see, the more I don't believe an aircraft hit the Pentagon.

Both me and my father were there at the time. Seeing the impact was fucking crazy, there was no bounce as someone said, I would remember that.

We were well over 100 yards away, and you could still feel the heat and the rumble of the blast. It was loud, but not like a gunshot where you get a ringing in your ears, more like thunder.


Afterwords we were approached by a man in a dark suit and sunglasses, I thought that was strange because we were inside at the time. He pulled a silver slender thing out of his pocket and asked us to look at it, went over our story with us, and we were on our way.




Juggs you're a fucking idiot.

Jugs, I read the thread with the openest of minds possible (please, keep in mind, I've been over-exposed to your idiotic musings for the length of your Tribalwar career, so a completely open mind may not be possible).

I've reached a conclusion, youre an idiot. You repeatedly blurt out idiotic opinions and then spend the rest of your idiotic brain-power to generate idiotic statements to support your idiotic opinions. I think you do this, because at some very primordial level, you derive sexual pleasure from idiocity.

I can only hope that Tribalwar (or the Internet) is just the dumping grounds for your desire for gratficiation via idiocity. Hopefully, the rest of your life is relatively idiot free.

For all the people saying 'god your stupid' here's your job:

Find one person that said "I saw it hit" Not someone who says 'i saw a plane go over and heard a boom'

"'I saw the tail of a large airliner. ... It plowed right into the Pentagon," said an Associated Press Radio reporter who witnessed the crash. 'There is billowing black smoke.'"
- "America's Morning of Terror." ChannelOne.com, 2001

"A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "'It added power on its way in,' he said. 'The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Father Stephen McGraw was driving to a graveside service at Arlington National Cemetery the morning of Sept. 11, when he mistakenly took the Pentagon exit onto Washington Boulevard, putting him in a position to witness American Airlines Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon. 'I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars.' McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon. 'The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. I saw it crash into the building,' he said. 'My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression,' he said. 'There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I remember seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an explosion of fire billowing through those two windows.'"
- "Pentagon Crash Eyewitness Comforted Victims." MDW News Service, 28 Sep 2001

"I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke."
- Steve Anderson, Director of Communications, USA Today

"Northern Virginia resident John O'Keefe was one of the commuters who witnessed the attack on the Pentagon. 'I was going up 395, up Washington Blvd., listening to the the news, to WTOP, and from my left side-I don't know whether I saw or heard it first- I saw a silver plane I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet,' said the 25-year-old O'Keefe, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication about lobbying. 'It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. I'd just heard them saying on the radio that National Airport was closing, and I thought, "That's not going to make it to National Airport." And then I realized where I was, and that it was going to hit the Pentagon. There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black, thick smoke.'"
- "Terrorist 'Situation'." American Lawyer Media, 11 Sep 2001

I can't believe a human being could possibly be this fucking stupid

unbelieveable.


OHNONONONONS!!!

JuggerNaught's an alien!

The neighbours, pets, coworkers, pmail, classmates, and pizza delivers of people who werent on an aircraft that we are debating the existence of?

yeah that would be tough wouldnt it?


So there are 70 people who are supposedly dead but carrying on somewhere in secret removed from everyone they know, or 70 people who are supposedly dead but carrying on somewhere and their close friends/family what have you have been brought into some gifuckingnomrous conspiracy, or 70 people who are supposed to be dead but have snuck back into their lives without their thousands of acquantences ever noticing it, or 70 people that don't exist but who have had every detail of their lives perfectly faked, or maybe there are 70 people who are DEAD.

"'I saw the tail of a large airliner. ... It plowed right into the Pentagon," said an Associated Press Radio reporter who witnessed the crash. 'There is billowing black smoke.'"
- "America's Morning of Terror." ChannelOne.com, 2001

"A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "'It added power on its way in,' he said. 'The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Father Stephen McGraw was driving to a graveside service at Arlington National Cemetery the morning of Sept. 11, when he mistakenly took the Pentagon exit onto Washington Boulevard, putting him in a position to witness American Airlines Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon. 'I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars.' McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon. 'The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. I saw it crash into the building,' he said. 'My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression,' he said. 'There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I remember seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an explosion of fire billowing through those two windows.'"
- "Pentagon Crash Eyewitness Comforted Victims." MDW News Service, 28 Sep 2001

"I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke."
- Steve Anderson, Director of Communications, USA Today

"Northern Virginia resident John O'Keefe was one of the commuters who witnessed the attack on the Pentagon. 'I was going up 395, up Washington Blvd., listening to the the news, to WTOP, and from my left side-I don't know whether I saw or heard it first- I saw a silver plane I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet,' said the 25-year-old O'Keefe, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication about lobbying. 'It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. I'd just heard them saying on the radio that National Airport was closing, and I thought, "That's not going to make it to National Airport." And then I realized where I was, and that it was going to hit the Pentagon. There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black, thick smoke.'"
- "Terrorist 'Situation'." American Lawyer Media, 11 Sep 2001

All those people have been paid off by the government duh. :rolleyes:

So there are 70 people who are supposedly dead but carrying on somewhere in secret removed from everyone they know, or 70 people who are supposedly dead but carrying on somewhere and their close friends/family what have you have been brought into some gifuckingnomrous conspiracy, or 70 people who are supposed to be dead but have snuck back into their lives without their thousands of acquantences ever noticing it, or 70 people that don't exist but who have had every detail of their lives perfectly faked, or maybe there are 70 people who are DEAD.

Pay attention.

I'm not saying 70 people were whisked off to some remote island.

I'm saying they didnt exist. "friends and family' can be produced. reports from friends and family quotes from friends and family, all can be produced. It doesnt matter if there actally were 'friends and family' a quote from 'friends and family' can be produced..get it?

"'I saw the tail of a large airliner. ... It plowed right into the Pentagon," said an Associated Press Radio reporter who witnessed the crash. 'There is billowing black smoke.'"
- "America's Morning of Terror." ChannelOne.com, 2001

"A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "'It added power on its way in,' he said. 'The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Father Stephen McGraw was driving to a graveside service at Arlington National Cemetery the morning of Sept. 11, when he mistakenly took the Pentagon exit onto Washington Boulevard, putting him in a position to witness American Airlines Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon. 'I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars.' McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon. 'The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. I saw it crash into the building,' he said. 'My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression,' he said. 'There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I remember seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an explosion of fire billowing through those two windows.'"
- "Pentagon Crash Eyewitness Comforted Victims." MDW News Service, 28 Sep 2001

"I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke."
- Steve Anderson, Director of Communications, USA Today

"Northern Virginia resident John O'Keefe was one of the commuters who witnessed the attack on the Pentagon. 'I was going up 395, up Washington Blvd., listening to the the news, to WTOP, and from my left side-I don't know whether I saw or heard it first- I saw a silver plane I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet,' said the 25-year-old O'Keefe, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication about lobbying. 'It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. I'd just heard them saying on the radio that National Airport was closing, and I thought, "That's not going to make it to National Airport." And then I realized where I was, and that it was going to hit the Pentagon. There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black, thick smoke.'"
- "Terrorist 'Situation'." American Lawyer Media, 11 Sep 2001

and for everyone one of these people who are sure it was a 757, there are 10 people who were sure it was a helicopter, sure it was a van, sure it was a small aircraft.

Pay attention.

I'm not saying 70 people were whisked off to some remote island.

I'm saying they didnt exist. "friends and family' can be produced. reports from friends and family quotes from friends and family, all can be produced. It doesnt matter if there actally were 'friends and family' a quote from 'friends and family' can be produced..get it?

So you're saying those 70 people don't exist anywhere save the quotes about them you've seen in the media. Ok.

That makes me happy. In that case, JuggerNaught doesn't exist either.

For all the people saying 'god your stupid' here's your job:

Find one person that said "I saw it hit" Not someone who says 'i saw a plane go over and heard a boom'

No Jugg -- that's YOUR job. And you're intentionally not succeeding at it because you know that if you actually put any effort into doing it, you would find more than a few people who saw it.

You're just content to sit on your duff postulating. If you really care about this, get the hell out of your house/office and do some REAL research. Start calling around and talking to people.

You have already been provided with several resources from which to start, and you've summarily ignored them. This says to me that you don't really care about the truth -- just the conspiracy.

and for everyone one of these people who are sure it was a 757, there are 10 people who were sure it was a helicopter, sure it was a van, sure it was a small aircraft.


None of them said it was a 757, but they all said it was a plane. Seriously dude you've lost, just admit defeat now or fall further into the realms of stupidity.

Everyone that is sceptical about what happened on 9/11 is not a wacko, he is completely justified. The official report on what happend that day lacks depth and critique. It does not put any effort into investigating exactly why standard procedures were failed to conduct by numerous security agents. It does not obvious questions such as: "how was it possible that hijackers managed to get a gun on board?". It just states that they did.

Let's have a look at the declassified files of Operation Northwoods, an operation proposed by chairman General Lemnitzer, later secretary general of NATO and ofcourse the Joint Chiefs of Staff. It speaks of conducting terrorist attacks on military and civilian goals in the US and at Guatanamo bay as a pretext to go war with Cuba.

On pages 10-11 (listed as pages 13-14 within the PDF viewer):

**
8. It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.

a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.

b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will being transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident.

("Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba," the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, March 13, 1962 http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf) .)

These documents show that within governmental and military circles terrorism has long be viewed as "an effective way to change the general public opinion". It shows the problem - solution system as proposed by some of the most influential and powerful men in the country and definitely sheds new lights upon Sept. 11th.

Now all of you have to realise that I'm not saying Bin Laden is a CIA puppet, Bush planned the attacks or deliberately let them happen. I am saying people here on TW have to keep up on current world events and read various publications by powerful commissions and lobby groups on foreign relations to find out the real motives that drive the U.S. foreign policy. There are publications out there written by key figures, powerful figures that basicly hand over the reason US troops are in Iraq right now.

A book that should be read by everyone on this forum is "The grand chess board" by Zbigniew Brzezinski, founder of the Trilateral Commission, National Security Advisor from 1977 - 1981 and principal foreign policy advisor to Jimmy Carter. After reading this book, it has become completely clear to me why the US occupied Iraq.

Ok, take 1 person - the pilot of the plane

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/cfburling3.htm
http://www.saratogamuseum.org/burlingame/chic.mhtml

The grave, his parents, his brother and sister, the foundation they started, his navy records, pilot school, the photographs (childhood ones too), his friends, officers who knew him, his wife, his CHILDREN... all fake. That is, they're either fictitious themselves or part of some fucking idiotic conspiracy where you could contact the foundation his siblings established, the navy, his children's school, the cemetary, his bank, the AMAA, his credit card company, his wife's family, and anyone who would have records of his existence and they would ALL be a front to cover up a fictional navy captain turned pilot. You could walk into his hometown and ask if anyone knew him or has photos... childhood friends, school photos, the yearbooks where he supposedly went to school... ALL ALTERED OR NONEXISTENT... and no one has noticed it or spoken up about it. Multiply this times the number of people on that flight.

You are fucking retarded.

This thread is great for testing how much you really value the "Freedom of Speech" provisions in the Constitution.

Ok, take 1 person - the pilot of the plane

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/cfburling3.htm
http://www.saratogamuseum.org/burlingame/chic.mhtml

The grave, his parents, his brother and sister, the foundation they started, his navy records, pilot school, the photographs (childhood ones too), his friends, officers who knew him, his CHILDREN... all fake. That is, they're either part of some fucking idiotic conspiracy or you could contact the foundation, the navy, his children's school, and they would ALL be a front to cover up a fictional navy captain turned pilot. Multiply this times the number of people on that flight.

You are fucking retarded.
And how 'bout Barbara Olsen, she had just written a book before she died in Flight 77.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0895261677/qid%3D1002989248/sr%3D8-1/ref%3Dsr%5F8%5F3%5F1/104-6876114-8083940

Pay attention.

I'm not saying 70 people were whisked off to some remote island.

I'm saying they didnt exist. "friends and family' can be produced. reports from friends and family quotes from friends and family, all can be produced. It doesnt matter if there actally were 'friends and family' a quote from 'friends and family' can be produced..get it?

....Please...Tell me you're kidding?

It would be much easier for the government to hijack and crash a plane themselves than to do what you just described.

There are just too many signs that point to "yes this really was a 747" and only one point from you "Since there are no crystal clear videos and large pieces of the plane, it never happened". Everyone has given you links to read, I'm betting you haven't read one of them.

Also I found this picture interesting:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.co m/IMAGES/pentagonapproach.jpg

Were these lamp posts physically clipped or damaged? I don't think a fighter jet/missle would actually have the wingspan to clip them. And if it wasn't a 747 or a missle, what are you claiming it could be?

....Please...Tell me you're kidding?

It would be much easier for the government to hijack and crash a plane themselves than to do what you just described.

There are just too many signs that point to "yes this really was a 747" and only one point from you "Since there are no crystal clear videos and large pieces of the plane, it never happened". Everyone has given you links to read, I'm betting you haven't read one of them.


Yeah I love it. It's an elaborate hoax that flawlessly fabricates 70 odd fictitious people and the full details of their existences and day to day lives, but when the government went to attack the pentagon to further their nefarious schemes they skimped and said "Let's just shoot it with a missile or fighter instead of hitting it with a real passenger liner, no one will notice. Everyone ok with that? Ok, let's order chinese."

Ok, take 1 person - the pilot of the plane

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/cfburling3.htm
http://www.saratogamuseum.org/burlingame/chic.mhtml

The grave, his parents, his brother and sister, the foundation they started, his navy records, pilot school, the photographs (childhood ones too), his friends, officers who knew him, his wife, his CHILDREN... all fake. That is, they're either fictitious themselves or part of some fucking idiotic conspiracy where you could contact the foundation his siblings established, the navy, his children's school, the cemetary, his bank, the AMAA, his credit card company, his wife's family, and anyone who would have records of his existence and they would ALL be a front to cover up a fictional navy captain turned pilot. You could walk into his hometown and ask if anyone knew him or has photos... childhood friends, school photos, the yearbooks where he supposedly went to school... ALL ALTERED OR NONEXISTENT... and no one has noticed it or spoken up about it. Multiply this times the number of people on that flight.

You are fucking retarded.

ok..there's one. so lets look at this from say the administration's point of view.

We need a reason to get troops to afghanistan. If we do this we can stage our attack on iraq..our real target. If we attack this target, there are litterally billions upon billions of dollars to be made in reconstruction as well as a democratic friendly government with control over much needed oil resources, and most likely keep the current president in office as he hunts for the perpetrators

All we have to do is make a flight crew, any flight crew, that has family and friends, disappear...best if by actual death so there is a funeral to go along with the story.

the other passengers we can basically make up with a passenger manifest, helped by the appropriate agencies that will benefit if we get those rebuild contracts, oil and with the current administration staying in office.

and all we have to do is make..what...5-6 people from a flight crew dead, with closed casket funerals..so you couldn't tell if they died in a firey plane crash or died by a military sidearm bullet to the head.

hmm....obscene amounts of money, fortunes that boggle the mind being made, and all that has to happen is 5 or 6 relatively unknown people need to die...

this thread is SO fucking gay.

look , unless it hasnt been stated already, aircraft are made of aluminum, i DARE you to go find large parts of the plane that went down in pennsylvania. YOU CANT BECAUSE IT VIRTUALLY DISENTIGRATED.

when they recovered remains in the field there it took WEEKS, and of the TONS of humans that were on the plane they were only able to find 250 or so fucking pounds of human remains.

ugh, this thread is dumb.