Since when is Osniping the capper considered *bad*

Because it is a beta test and if the current build does not work decently on pubs without extra rules that must be made up, then the game should not be finished yet.

You do effing figure that these issues CAN NOT be fixed in any way without effing up the game. Like removing CTF and Sniper Rifle. No more O sniping whining and flag returns then eh? And even then people would find new issues to whine about

EVERY, and i mean EVERY game has it's whiners, elitists and morons. Deal with it and stop the excessive QQ

Oh, and if people so much hate 5150 rules, what are generally good for pubs as long as they aren't abused ( :lol: ) and the anti-turtle rule works (What i don't know about), then go effing play somewhere else.

:grimreape

Yeah your right , i'v seen so much maturity out of those Opposed , havn't I ????? wtf kinda name is Harlequin? The problem is those you speak of don't care about anyone but them selves. If they don't care if it's fun for anyone else, why should I? I'm sure you'll come back with some witty post like this one....lmao.

--Fatal

Man you are the epitome of hypocritical. You start out by outlining the maturity of those with differing opinions than yours and imply they act like children. Then in what i assume to be the next sentence (seriously work on your grammar - it's a known fact that people discount you immediately if you cannot communicate properly) you proceed to make fun of my name. What is this high and mighty maturity level you imply that you possess? Last time i heard someone make fun of someone else's name was back in grade two. Kindly refrain from being too much of a moron on this forum cause surprisingly, not everyone else is.

Also, what have i already told you about not jumping to conclusions. How is it that you think all these anti-o-snipers just care about themselves when they have all posted how it is their opinion that it slows down the game for EVERYBODY by possibly inducing a turtle. Or how in many cases on a pub, an o-sniper ends up being a wasted man on the field since their snipes are not timed with a coordinated offensive attack? Since you claim to have play tribes for years and years, i ask you: why do you think o-snipers are generally frowned upon (i can only speak in this case for T1/T2 as for T:V draw your own implications)? Well maybe since in the MAJORITY of the cases in pubs it is a WASTED position. Notice i said MAJORITY, not all and how i said WASTED and not hated. There is a difference between wasted and hated. People seem to hate HO a hell of a lot more than most positions but they are always effective regardless of the server.

As you also stated, "If they don't care if it's fun for anyone else, why should I?", well that is just a stupid attitude and shows you to be as belligerent as the people you are so desperately fighting.

Finally, you either need a dictionary very badly or need to work on your sarcasm (personally i think it's a bit of both). My last post was "witty"... please look that word up and a few others for all our sakes.

Man you are the epitome of hypocritical. You start out by outlining the maturity of those with differing opinions than yours and imply they act like children. Then in what i assume to be the next sentence (seriously work on your grammar - it's a known fact that people discount you immediately if you cannot communicate properly) you proceed to make fun of my name. What is this high and mighty maturity level you imply that you possess? Last time i heard someone make fun of someone else's name was back in grade two. Kindly refrain from being too much of a moron on this forum cause surprisingly, not everyone else is.

Also, what have i already told you about not jumping to conclusions. How is it that you think all these anti-o-snipers just care about themselves when they have all posted how it is their opinion that it slows down the game for EVERYBODY by possibly inducing a turtle. Or how in many cases on a pub, an o-sniper ends up being a wasted man on the field since their snipes are not timed with a coordinated offensive attack? Since you claim to have play tribes for years and years, i ask you: why do you think o-snipers are generally frowned upon (i can only speak in this case for T1/T2 as for T:V draw your own implications)? Well maybe since in the MAJORITY of the cases in pubs it is a WASTED position. Notice i said MAJORITY, not all and how i said WASTED and not hated. There is a difference between wasted and hated. People seem to hate HO a hell of a lot more than most positions but they are always effective regardless of the server.

As you also stated, "If they don't care if it's fun for anyone else, why should I?", well that is just a stupid attitude and shows you to be as belligerent as the people you are so desperately fighting.

Finally, you either need a dictionary very badly or need to work on your sarcasm (personally i think it's a bit of both). My last post was "witty"... please look that word up and a few others for all our sakes.

I'm glad you think your grammer is perfect....... but your just another moron.

--Fatal

Well that post was better but i would suggest posting and typing something to back your argument up with. Also, posting on topic never hurt anyone.

Harlequin DOES have a point here. Posting on these foruns has gotten to sound more like who gets the last word, not doning anything constructive. lock this thread and be DONE with it.

True... lock this thread since the discussion seemed to end ages ago. Just everyone play where the rules (or lack there of) suit you best.

You do effing figure that these issues CAN NOT be fixed in any way without effing up the game. Like removing CTF and Sniper Rifle.

I have no gripes with the former, remove it altogether!

Nobody is going to be removing anything. Specially not just because of some really silly rules... :D

Also, what have i already told you about not jumping to conclusions. How is it that you think all these anti-o-snipers just care about themselves when they have all posted how it is their opinion that it slows down the game for EVERYBODY by possibly inducing a turtle. Or how in many cases on a pub, an o-sniper ends up being a wasted man on the field since their snipes are not timed with a coordinated offensive attack? Since you claim to have play tribes for years and years, i ask you: why do you think o-snipers are generally frowned upon (i can only speak in this case for T1/T2 as for T:V draw your own implications)? Well maybe since in the MAJORITY of the cases in pubs it is a WASTED position. Notice i said MAJORITY, not all and how i said WASTED and not hated. There is a difference between wasted and hated. People seem to hate HO a hell of a lot more than most positions but they are always effective regardless of the server.

I disagree with O snipe being a "wasted" position in the MAJORITY of cases on pub servers. An experienced O sniper can generally tell who on D "knows" what they are doing, and those are the first people we target. Experienced O Snipers (in some cases) do not kill defenders as it takes longer to run to the inv station and heal up than it takes to respawn. Incoming cappers also have the added benefit of a seriously injured Defender (if the defender has chosen not to take the precious time to repair him or herself). Given that most pub games are uncoordinated from a teamplay perspective an O Sniper can be ABSOLUTELY DEVESTATING eliminating the enemy players that DO know what they are doing.

The reason Heavy O doesn't get the same hate as the Offensive Sniper, is that 9 times out of 10 the heavy O spammer eventually gets pwned by the defence. In contrast an O Sniper can ski away to safety, frustrating the defenders who are unwilling to chase after the sniper.

The "wasted position" exscuse is just as lame as the "turtling exscuse. They are not the true reason why O Snipers are banned on certain servers they just provide a convienient cover for the real reason. The TRUE reason is simply because O Snipers are Hated. Hated because they bruise the ego's of certain "vets" who can't take getting owned unless it's in a disc duel.

Bamelin[VRT]
The Vanu Round Table
http://roundtable.communitygamin g.net/index.php

LOCK THE BLOODY THREAD AND STOP effING POSTING!

This thread makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :D

LOCK THE BLOODY THREAD AND STOP effING POSTING!

I disagree with locking this thread. It's obvious by the number of views (over 5000!!!) and the number of posts that this issue is an extremely important one to the Tribes Community.

Bamelin[VRT]
The Vanu Round Table
http://roundtable.communitygamin g.net/index.php

no, its turned from a simple statement to flamebait. read the posts, 90% of them contribute NOTHING AT ALL.

Or maybe its a sideline for bored people to view at lunch.

no, its turned from a simple statement to flamebait. read the posts, 90% of them contribute NOTHING AT ALL.

I disagree.

The best debates ARE the heated ones. And despite some harsh words on both sides of the fence I truly believe that this thread is helping each side to understand what motivates the other.

That is a good thing.

Let the thread die a natural death rather than stopping the debate just because you are "tired" of it. Nobody is forcing you to click on this thread.

Bamelin[VRT]
The Vanu Round Table
http://roundtable.communitygamin g.net/index.php

//begin rant
also whats this BS about leaving the flag in the field..

my god if thats what you t1 and t2 vets think as another unwritten rule then you should be shot in the face with a shotgun laid down in the middle of the desert, Nuked 5 times and then pissed on by an elephant..

/end rant

seriously? play more. leaving the flag on the field is strategically sound. cappers tend to have set routes and any way to get them off that route is a defensive advantage. Of course there are always "great escapes" and "ugly routes" but if you ask any capper I bet they'd say they'd rather have the flag on the stand than at the base of a hill.

Bamelin, i wansn't going ot post anymore here since no real discussion was going on anymore but i must say that you have brought up some good points (i know you've brougth this stuff up before but i don't think it was as organized). I can agree with you on many things you've said however my posts are based on my experience so i guess in all the time we've both been playing tribes, we've been on different servers i guess. :shrug: I've seen o-snipers be very useful on pubs before as my last post implied but i guess from what i've seen 95% of the time they aren't. More often than not i see them either causing turtles or wasting space by shooting random things on defense. You wouldn't believe how many times i heard snipers (T2 i'm thinking here) say "Look at me! i got the most points on the server!" at the end of the match while their team lost by a cap and that sniper could have been a big help if he wasn't shooting useless stuff.

I think i've come to the conclusion that thus far in my experience in T:V o-sniping is decent practice on pubs if done correctly (i.e. not sniping LDs when no one is around to grab or taking out a capper during a standoff when no one is around to retrieve). I think if o-snipers somehow all agreed to stop taking useless shots then they wouldn't get such a bad rap. To me, it seems like o-snipers like to take it up as a full position and more often than not (even in comp games but especially on pubs) it should really only be part time since on pubs offensive pressure is not always on. This i think is what really pisses people off and makes it unfun for them on pubs. If you're playing D, and you get sniped and you look at your radar and no enemies are coming for your flag/base and you suit up and then som sniper starts shooting at you over and over, it really pisses you off. Now again if that sniper hits you and a moment later a capper comes and grabs your flag at 2000 km per hour, then i don't think you'd be too sour (i.e. like in comp). I seem to be rambling now so i'll stop but i hope what i said makes sense.

Or maybe its a sideline for bored people to view at lunch.

Too true... i keep this open on my desktop and read it when i need a break at work!

To me, it seems like o-snipers like to take it up as a full position and more often than not (even in comp games but especially on pubs) it should really only be part time since on pubs offensive pressure is not always on. This i think is what really pisses people off and makes it unfun for them on pubs. If you're playing D, and you get sniped and you look at your radar and no enemies are coming for your flag/base and you suit up and then som sniper starts shooting at you over and over, it really pisses you off. Now again if that sniper hits you and a moment later a capper comes and grabs your flag at 2000 km per hour, then i don't think you'd be too sour (i.e. like in comp).

I can't speak for other snipers out there but I do it pretty much full time aside from the occasional heavy O rampage.

Regarding your comment about hitting the D when no cappers are around ... personally in this situation (no friendlycapper around) I like to maim the defence, taking shots with the intention of wounding rather than killing them. They then have the choice of running back to base to repair, staying to defend the flag in their weakened state, running back to the base to repair and then coming after me, or coming straight at me without repairing.

No matter what the wounded defender does at this point I have provided my team with an advantage. If the wounded soldier runs to repair himself, then comes straight after me that is one less enemy defender guarding the flag. If the defender stays to guard the flag in his weakend state, he will be that much more vulnerable to a disk shot (or another snipe by me) from the incoming capper.

Let's be frank. In T:V there is almost *always* enemy cappers incoming. It's not Tribes 2 (I'm talking about base not classic) where it takes 10 years to cross the map. The flow of the game is such that cappers come in a rapid steady pace.

You stated:

If you're playing D, and you get sniped and you look at your radar and no enemies are coming for your flag/base and you suit up and then som sniper starts shooting at you over and over, it really pisses you off.

The way I think the average defender sees it:

If your playing D and you get sniped you suit up and then some sniper starts shooting at you over and over, it really pisses you off

This is just my opinion but I think the main source of anger against the O Sniper comes from LD players that don't want to have to leave the flag stand to "take care" of the sniper. The second group of players that hate O Snipers are the enemy cappers who have generally barely escaped death on the other side of the map only to be sniped by an O Sniper seconds before they make the cap.

Annoyance is not a good reason to ban an entire class of player. The way I was brought up if another player gets the better of you (and yes I give props to any skilled sniper that takes me out WHETHER OR NOT I KNEW I WAS BEING TARGETED) in a game you take it like a man. The "turtling" exscuse and "it's not fun" exscuse are cover ups for bruised ego's and inability to admit that one got owned.

Bamelin[VRT]
The Vanu Round Table
http://roundtable.communitygamin g.net/index.php

This has been a debate for quite some time, but mostly in the Classic forums. It’s a lame argument. Very lame.

Snipers are by their very nature an offensive position. "Defensive Sniper" is an oxymoron, and should never exist. Banning, kicking, harassing, offensive snipers is childish. If you cant deal with them in normal game play, pub or not, then you need to learn how to play the game better. If your defense players cannot handle a sniper or two harassing them then you need a new defense.

Personally, I take great pleasure in hunting snipers down and showing them that they have made a mistake in thinking that they can harass my teammates with impunity. If you don’t like snipers then make it a point to hunt them down and kill them every time they show up on your side of the map. Banning them, kicking them, or making rules against them is the height of stupidity, and you have been doing this without noticeable affect since Tribes 1. Its about time you realized that you are wasting time and effort that could be more useful in playing the game and learning how to deal with them.

I agree with you whole heartedly. I played tribes 2 classic and tribes 2 renegades for the entire time they existed.

In renegades O sniping was allowed, actually used as a tactic to counter the use of vehicles and limit the number of deployed turets that were out.

In return, I adapted to and became a very skilled hunter of snipers, per say the "anti-sniper" IMHO O snipers become very easy points and kills. For one, they mostly stand still, and have very light armor. couple of pod shots, 2 discs, 1 laser shot + disc, any chain gun harassment ruins their ability to shoot at you.

I honestly think t:v should embrace the sniper ala " light carrying the rifle " and learn how to use it all aspects of the game.

Its not that hard to counter, its not even that great of a weapon right now with the netcode being the way it is.

Overall, I would hope that you people would not try changing a game with unwritten rules. I mean its BETA, its not tribes 1 or 2, and it might not even be useable on maps that come out for this game.

with OOB grid and small maps in beta, limited rounds, energy use, the sniper rifle is a tough skill to master, and if you can snipe with it sucessfully any place on a map, more props to you. If you think an Offensive sniper doesnt help a team, I would love to prove you wrong. I cant even count how many returns I would get chasing with laser rifle in tribes 2 classic. or how many shots I hit that dropped the capper just in time for my teammate to get an easy pickup/return.

and to sum it up, I think the problem is- MODERATION. Just dont snipe the whole map, rape a whole map, LD a whole map. Mix it up by changing your roles based on what the situation is. Your team and teams you play with will enjoy the benefit or placing you in any role and know you will be successful.

VGTG