[Feedback] TV's Sensor System

I can't be bothered re-typing what i wrote on bittah and what others have written in response, so i'll just link you.

Click me to see original thread (http://www.bittah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10296&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

I truly am interested to see what the rest of you think...

Now when i first read about the new system i was excited by it, i thought it had a lot of potential, but after playing with it for the last 3 weeks or so, i can now catergorically say i hate it.

I did not believe that such a simple change could have such huge ramifications on the game i love.

1. Good concealed skiing and ho routes now count for nought.
2. LD/MD/HD no longer need to have situational awareness.
3. Seeing what direction the opposition leave their base from is a joke.
4. Wtf point is the rover if you can see where it is being driven to and deployed from the other side of the map?
5. Deployablles show up on it even if they are concealed and not in anyones line of sight, hence good tm work is negated.
6. Im sure theres a bunch more but i cant remember them at the moment...

Now i know some ppl are going to say "yeh well then just take it down", but i want to be playing ctf, not defend and destroy the sensor, not to mention with the ease of repairing it it never stays down for long.

Im glad they wanted to make the sensor system more intuitive, but did they really need to make it the new be-all- and-end-all of the game?

Wouldn't it have been enough to make it line of sight of the main sensor and of players? That way with the HUD mini-map it would still have been a great advantage to have it up, but if cappers, ho, etc were skilled and could find routes that kept them hidden until the last minute, they would be rewarded for such. Not to mention ld players, i want to go into a game going, "ahh eff, blah blah is playing ld/mf tonight, man that guys a freak, always seems to know just where im coming from!" and knowing that this isn't from his uber-skilled use of the all seeing eye sensor system, but because he knew what routes i used, or knew my style, or knew were to position himself so he could see a wide range of incoming angles..

Anyways on to the point of my post...

Am i the only one who doesnt like this system, or are the others that feel the same? If im in the minority ill just bite my tongue and play the game until this feature annoys the eff out of me or map makers make maps without it.

Comments/feedback welcome....
Having the gameplay depend heavily on one particular thing is never good.

Yeh thats the start of the original thread, and i appreciate you c&p'ing for ppl, but i think its worth reading the whole thread to see others perspectives and the further clarifications i, and others, made. :)

I can see why they wanted to simplify it for new players, but why can't basic or advanced sensors be a server side option. Tiny maps combined with all seeing sensors has eliminated any stealth in the game. :(

We all love a bit of frantic duelling, but there’s supposed to be more to tribes than just that.

Let's hope that larger maps will be in the final release. Most of the problems I've heard people complaining about all owe their roots to small maps - especially the whole "too easy to cap" thing.

perhaps the sensor could be LOS only (players LOS) and all turrets and things of that nature would still appear on the map after out of los. if they are destroyed, they still stay on the map. i cant really get this idea out, so if anyone gets it, help me summarize it.

I can understand your concerns, but I would like to see the sensors role in coordinated team matches before I judge it. pubs are a different matter...

perhaps the sensor could be LOS only (players LOS) and all turrets and things of that nature would still appear on the map after out of los. if they are destroyed, they still stay on the map. i cant really get this idea out, so if anyone gets it, help me summarize it.

I dont think it needs to be complicated in any way, just make the main sensor have a maximum radius, and players have a small sensor radius around them. Then when a player (or deployable etc) is within either the main sensor range or the player sensor range, they show up on the mini-map. :)

I dont know how easy this would be to do, but afaic it would still be intuitive without losing some of the depth that is has currently taken away. :)

Look im not saying im right in any way, but if one of the devs or anyone here can point out to me how this system is better than the previous two, i'd really like to hear how. Oh and this doesnt inlcude the following, it has a hud mini-map and is easier for ppl to understand, as i agree with both of these, but i also believe that it can still have both those elements while still maintaining some depth. :)

I'm not really liking the sensor in it's current form either.

It's kind of ridiculous that I can see every enemy player no matter where they are on the map. I would much rather have a limited range sensor....or even better a limited range and LOS sensor.

I don't know if this would be feasible or not...but maybe it would nice to have a 'pub-mode' sensor system which would be the simple to understand system we have now, and also a 'competition-mode' sensor system which would be limited by range or LOS, or a combination of the two.

Also is the flag indicator on the hud tied into the sensor system? I haven't really paid close attention to it yet, but if your sensor is down do you lose the flag finder icon which marks your flag on the hud radar?

I dont think it needs to be complicated in any way, just make the main sensor have a maximum radius, and players have a small sensor radius around them. Then when a player (or deployable etc) is within either the main sensor range or the player sensor range, they show up on the mini-map. :)

I believe that is exactly how T1's sensor system worked. It makes perfect sense, and IMO it's not so hard to understand that newbies will be clueless about how it works. Plus it lets players have an element of stealth in their approach to an enemy's base.

i've hated the sensor system from the outset, and posted numerous times about it before.

Overall I think they've done a great job with T:V, but at the list of poor decisions (which is not that long a list mind you) the sensor system is right at the top.

T1 and T2 had vastly superior models. While this may be more intuitive, its also a piece of crap.

Unfortunately it will not get changed now, which is a shame, because this has the makings of a great game, but this is not the game element of a great game.

I find that the new sensor net makes HOFing too easy for me, and therfore, not nearly as entertaining. Used to be I had to be good and drunk to do a proper job of HOFing (vodka kept me from being too jumpy), and now I can brick-wall a flag while stone-cold sober. Just tap C every twenty seconds or so, figure out where the incoming cappers will be coming from, and set up. I end up way more prepared for them than they are for me, and with the armor advantage (and a shield pack active at the right time thanks to the God-Sensors) I've usually got, cappers end up at roast chops impaled on my flag.

I can totally understand the reasoning for simplifying the sensor net: T1 and T2's nets were complex and ticklish beasts that were well worth understanding, but were difficult to keep straight in one's head in the middle of a match. Line-of-sight, 4 types of sensors, varying ranges, zoom-placing people on the IFF, player-caused IFF shadow... it was glorious to me, but I've trained more than a few players that could handle everything else but the sensor net.

I like the idea posted in the bittah thread about capping the radius on the main sensor and then giving players their own small radius with which to contribute. That avoids neatly the problem of programming in multiple types of sensors and countermeasures for each. You're either on the net or you're not, and it's easy to remember how you get on it--get close to an enemy or get close to an enemy base. Of course, a HUD indicator of sensor status (like T1/T2) would be handy to have.

---

Mainly, I want to be surprised by cappers again. I want to have raging-mad HO blindside me with pointy weapons again. I want to get caught with my pants down, in other words, because how a HOF reacts to that kind of situation is what separates the good HOFs from the bad ones.

Thank fek im not the only one who feels this way......

this isn't the first time it has been discussed, and unfortunately the dev response was "our way is more intuitive, therefore superior"

so we will end up with a very poor sensor system because they think it will make it more appealing to the CS/UT/Q3 masses, when i'd say those people wont notice how the sensor system works, and will have minimal impact on whether they like the game.

btw :wave: Wayne, where you at these days?

All we can hope for is map makers to redo the maps with indestructable sensors. Having no IFF's is no fun.

All we can hope for is map makers to redo the maps with indestructable sensors. Having no IFF's is no fun.


:huh:

All we can hope for is map makers to redo the maps with indestructable sensors. Having no IFF's is no fun.

uh no, that would be bad.

being that the problem with the sensors is that they're too powerful, making them unable to be destroyed would only compound the problem?

i'd rather play with no IFF's than being able to see everyone on the map at all times and removing most of the game smarts required to play D.

I am also in the dislike the command map group. As an HO I rarely make it more than halfway across the map before being pounced on. I don't know how much of that is because people are watching the command map or because the red icon above my head is showing up as I approach BECAUSE of the sensor range. Either way as mentioned above there is no stealth in the current mode.

Also the command map doesnt appear to allow way points or targeting of individual players which was a feature I really used often in T2. Given its structure I doubt thats something that can be added though.

Have to agree on this, think we have to wait for modders to change this.

Yup, in total agreement.