Offense and defense

Now we've all heard from the beta testers that T:V has an "overpowered" offense with all the new additions they made.

Which made me think: Remember how T2 started off as defensively overpowered? With ridiculously accurate turrets, slow moving skiing, vehicle centric combat and an all around "heavy" feeling to everything?

It's an interesting thought, because they seem to be doing the exact opposite of T2.

The question is: Will it flop like T2 (until a T1 mod was made)? Or will it be the best Tribes since T1?


Discuss.

1. It's impossible to say if Offense is stronger because rarely do people actually try to defend.

2. Defense has a natural advantage in every game. Respawning. Both offense and defense respawn on the defense side of the map. This gives them multiple lives. Offenses have to deal with defenders on their way in and respawning defenders on their way out.

3. As per #2, offenses should have offensive tools that help tip the scales towards them. This is why T2 was a failure, why maps were tied 0-0 and such. Those tools were present only on the defenses side.

If it is the opposite of T2 Base, then this game is gonna rock.

Repairing is so god damn easy I don't see how it can be a problem. Dedicated Base Defense in pubs has shown that it won't be hard to keep your base up.

1. Good offense is the best defense.

I'd rather it be overpowered towards offense than defense.

The question is: Will it flop like T2 (until a T1 mod was made)?



T1 mod as in Classic?

















mHAHAHA damn that ripped T2 even more apart, that bs mod

That mod made T2 actually playable.

Not many people play defense right now, but I've tried chasing. I'm still pretty awful at it since I haven't done it much yet, but chasing isn't actually that hard. If you don't get a good start on them, forget it, but if you're paying attention its pretty easy to at least keep up with them.

Also, bb'ing with the buckler is fairly simple to do. The hit detection has improved a lot (people don't seem to just go straight through you anymore) so that's a good way to stop lone cowboy cappers.

I'd rather see too many bonuses for offense as far as getting the flag goes, because if both teams have the other's flag then they are unltimately forced to confront. The only problem with overpowered offense is that if one team gets the upper hand, it might be far too difficult for them to lose it.

I can't begin to tell how Vengeance is balanced; I haven't played it, but offense being overpowered is still better than the resulting stalemates of overpowered defense.

Oh yeah, Classic T2 mod rules.

Not enough people actually defend to really know for sure.

Ive tried to defend the bases in HD. Its always a losing battle. On winter lake Ive used every mine and turrent possible and theres no way to stop 2 or more HO. IMO it takes to long to repair due to the repair pack taking forever to recharge.

I think with turrets being underpowered and repairing limited plus the easy of mobility of HO will make it extremely hard for 1 or 2 people to get a base back up and running and keep it running like in Classic.

Ive tried to defend the bases in HD. Its always a losing battle. On winter lake Ive used every mine and turrent possible and theres no way to stop 2 or more HO. IMO it takes to long to repair due to the repair pack taking forever to recharge.

I've defended the base several times on that map and kept the gens up the entire map with multiple HO.

1. Good offense is the best defense.

agree 100% but easier said than done.

I've defended the base several times on that map and kept the gens up the entire map with multiple HO.

I dont doubt that you did, but theres always different circumstances.

The wide open nature of what we have seen thus far indicates it will be a turtlefest for each teams' flag. Now, I think that suits things just fine. But I do believe that before its released, we will see more defense oriented changes to map configurations and/or flag placement.

As long as balance is kept in tact, who cares? =)

I think with turrets being underpowered and repairing limited plus the easy of mobility of HO will make it extremely hard for 1 or 2 people to get a base back up and running and keep it running like in Classic.
I'll say from experience that the new repair model makes base defense superfluous. You can lose your base to several HO and get it 100% back in 30 seconds.

Yes, it's hard to defend. The flag, the inv stations, the gens are all taken easily. On the other hand, it's easy to get them back. Well, the flags are tougher but still possible.

Scores are very high and I think you can expect them to remain high even at the competitive level. This won't be 1-1 like in Tribes 2 or 8-3 as with Tribes 1. Scores will be 22-16, 15-8, etc.

Attackers have a literal and figurative momentum advantage. Cappers are tough to catch unless you see them and anticipate their direction. If we're going to see flag runners stopped, it'll be by sniper rifles, not heavies, IMO. It's too easy to knock a heavy off the flag and too hard to time the mortar to a capper. Also, for the figurative part - once the flag is gone, and your defense chases, what little defense you had in the first place will not be there to prevent the follow-up cap.

The best defense will be a good offense, since the only way that's even mildly effective in preventing the enemy from capping your flag is to hold his.

My $.02.

The question is: Will it flop like T2 (until a T1 mod was made)? Or will it be the best Tribes since T1?
IMO:
Right now in TV's current state, TV is a much more stable game than T2 was for months after release - with patches even. Combine that with it's not horribly overloaded to the Defense side, TV's speed & the Devs' attentiveness. (There's more I suspect I could add but you get the picture.)

Those factors right there, again IMO, will keep people from leaving in droves right off the bat - thus not "flopping like T2".

Of course, this is all speculation, but meh, whatever. :)

I'll say from experience that the new repair model makes base defense superfluous. You can lose your base to several HO and get it 100% back in 30 seconds.

Yes, it's hard to defend. The flag, the inv stations, the gens are all taken easily. On the other hand, it's easy to get them back. Well, the flags are tougher but still possible.

Scores are very high and I think you can expect them to remain high even at the competitive level. This won't be 1-1 like in Tribes 2 or 8-3 as with Tribes 1. Scores will be 22-16, 15-8, etc.

Attackers have a literal and figurative momentum advantage. Cappers are tough to catch unless you see them and anticipate their direction. If we're going to see flag runners stopped, it'll be by sniper rifles, not heavies, IMO. It's too easy to knock a heavy off the flag and too hard to time the mortar to a capper. Also, for the figurative part - once the flag is gone, and your defense chases, what little defense you had in the first place will not be there to prevent the follow-up cap.

The best defense will be a good offense, since the only way that's even mildly effective in preventing the enemy from capping your flag is to hold his.

My $.02.

Thanks for that.

I'm still concerned with play on pubs that people will just get fed up with trying to defend and just go O instead.

I feel that somewhere there is an excellent defensive tactic (similar to HoF) where only a few people can stop a small wave of cappers. It just hasn't been discovered yet. And it could possibly be something the devs didn't intend, like a certain deployable in a certain spot making grabs more difficult or something.

But my greatest fear is just the lack of cohension in pubs between O and D. Sure, everybody did their own thing, but when you got a HoF, TF, a dedicated repairer and a bunch of LDs, you had a pretty good team.

The lack of defensive positions scares me.