[T:V] some (small) new Screenshots

Imo, all other games are like a prison compared to Tribes. Looking at the screenshot with that big wall and that horrid backdrop kills that feeling of freedom.

w/e.. I guess eventually you get used to it.

Exactly. I dont understand why they put vertical limit. Normal OOB grind is enough, IMO. It's that whole aspect of freedom that got me hooked to Tribes. I'm trying to imagine a map like Raindance stuck in a OOB Grid box... It would just dont feel right.

Why not? It gives a better athmosphere .. imo ;o
Tribes was the first game I played where you could go anywhere that you could see. Adding backdrop mountains is just rubbing in that the Unreal engine doesn't allow maps as large as in T1/T2.

Wow, looks amazingly nice. :bigthumb:

Colosus where's our high-res TW versions?
YES! those pictures are awsome looking, even though they lack the res we crave. yet they still own me so much that i nearly spooge myself. hi-res me captain! :roller:

looks like unreal

Question is, will I be able to run head first into the glass and actually have it break? ;)

I wondered about that too. I think that map may be one of the new indoor breed, since the honeycomb-ish OOB grid is visible through the window.

Tribes was the first game I played where you could go anywhere that you could see. Adding backdrop mountains is just rubbing in that the Unreal engine doesn't allow maps as large as in T1/T2.

T2 maps really arent as large as you might think. (Although at the same time they are - confusing huh).

The terrain on a T2 map repeats every 2k meters. That's terrain, not 'things' - like buildings etc. That means that you can have massively large maps - as long as you dont fuxor with the terrain much. Like digging holes or 'painting in' things like roads. Digging out a basement in a base will leave a hole in the terrain where it repeats. (But without the building) I'm sure you have seen them. A manmade looking hole in the ground in the middle of nowhere well outside the OOB grid.

I likened T2 maps to playing in Wyoming, and I agree with you. They could do the same (or similar) thing with the Unreal engine. Repeating terrain isnt that hard. Assigning 'stuff' to the terrain isnt hard either really. But its all 'stuff' that was already done with T2 and isnt done with T:V. My guess is they wont want to invest the time unless they absolutely have to. I'm betting they wont, but I wish they would. It is a nice feature.

I bet someone gave the argument - 'It'll be ok. People wont mind'. I bet some wont mind. I bet some will. :) Playing in Wyoming is better than playing in a box in most cases. Not all, but most.

I know how terrain works in T1/T2. They said they can't make as large of areas in T:V due to "limitations" in the unreal engine. This eliminates skiing out of bounds for fun and other things that use large outdoor areas, such as xtremeski.

I know how terrain works in T1/T2. They said they can't make as large of areas in T:V due to "limitations" in the unreal engine. This eliminates skiing out of bounds for fun and other things that use large outdoor areas, such as xtremeski.

i love that once people hear tv doesn't have infinitely repeating terrain they automatically assume the playable area is limited to the size of a shoebox.

I know how terrain works in T1/T2. They said they can't make as large of areas in T:V due to "limitations" in the unreal engine. This eliminates skiing out of bounds for fun and other things that use large outdoor areas, such as xtremeski.


And that's where you'd be wrong. Due to the nature of the unreal engine you don't have build your entire map within a rectangle. An xtremeski map only uses a shallow strip of track, and that is what you would build the map around. This actually gives you more control over your map than ever.


As for map size, there's no reason you can't make a map as large as t1. I don't know where you heard otherwise but it's misinformation. Furthermore the gamezone is seperate from the oob zone. This oob grid can be close to the edge of the map, but the oob flag area can be contained within the grid area.

There really aren't limitations, you just can't create an infinate repeating map as you could in T2. And really, that was a worthless feature.

T2 maps really arent as large as you might think. (Although at the same time they are - confusing huh).

The terrain on a T2 map repeats every 2k meters. That's terrain, not 'things' - like buildings etc. That means that you can have massively large maps - as long as you dont fuxor with the terrain much. Like digging holes or 'painting in' things like roads. Digging out a basement in a base will leave a hole in the terrain where it repeats. (But without the building) I'm sure you have seen them. A manmade looking hole in the ground in the middle of nowhere well outside the OOB grid.

I likened T2 maps to playing in Wyoming, and I agree with you. They could do the same (or similar) thing with the Unreal engine. Repeating terrain isnt that hard. Assigning 'stuff' to the terrain isnt hard either really. But its all 'stuff' that was already done with T2 and isnt done with T:V. My guess is they wont want to invest the time unless they absolutely have to. I'm betting they wont, but I wish they would. It is a nice feature.

I bet someone gave the argument - 'It'll be ok. People wont mind'. I bet some wont mind. I bet some will. :) Playing in Wyoming is better than playing in a box in most cases. Not all, but most.

Actually if you bump the square size up that 2k gets a helluva lot larger, talking 5 - 10k size before it repeats. But it fuxors the spawn graphs so you have to use script scripted spawn points and bots aren't supported. P.S. have you seen the new Torque Shader Engine? ::drools::

As for map size, there's no reason you can't make a map as large as t1. I don't know where you heard otherwise but it's misinformation. Furthermore the gamezone is seperate from the oob zone. This oob grid can be close to the edge of the map, but the oob flag area can be contained within the grid area.
I got the impression that OOB and bouncy wall were the same thing.. So....

http://www.suavesports.org/py/tv_oob.gif

Right?

And that's where you'd be wrong. Due to the nature of the unreal engine you don't have build your entire map within a rectangle. An xtremeski map only uses a shallow strip of track, and that is what you would build the map around. This actually gives you more control over your map than ever.


As for map size, there's no reason you can't make a map as large as t1. I don't know where you heard otherwise but it's misinformation. Furthermore the gamezone is seperate from the oob zone. This oob grid can be close to the edge of the map, but the oob flag area can be contained within the grid area.

There really aren't limitations, you just can't create an infinate repeating map as you could in T2. And really, that was a worthless feature.
I remember a dev (KP I believe) saying that he would like for the terrain to go as far as in T1 but they weren't able to do it. I can't find a quote in devtracker, so I could be wrong. I wish I could search posts by user name since I remember Colosus responding to me asking about how trpg could exist in a small play area. Instead of saying that Unreal supports huge areas, he said that Unreal based rpgs use "zones."

I don't see why they wouldn't have large T1 like oob areas if it is possible, since Tribes was one of the first games to have this. The seemingly unlimited play areas of T1 was one of the first things that really awed me about the game.

Actually if you bump the square size up that 2k gets a helluva lot larger, talking 5 - 10k size before it repeats. But it fuxors the spawn graphs so you have to use script scripted spawn points and bots aren't supported. P.S. have you seen the new Torque Shader Engine? ::drools::

I encountered that very problem on a very large map I was doing. (Spawn issues over a large area).

I suspect what was meant regarding map size not being an issue with the Epic engine is this - the Tribes map scale was probably chosen with tiling in mind. That is, 2km as one tile. Which is small, but not when you consider the overall size after tiling. (Small for a vehicle map, not for a cluster T1 style map like Damnation - which is what, 500 - 600 m flag to flag). Epic probably didnt anticipate tiling, which means they needed to include real scale (non-tiled) in the basic map structure. All that really means is that the OOB grid needs to be different from the actual dimensions of the map I suspect. Not limitless, but a play area within the OOB with a large maneuver periphery between the OOB and the actual map edge. I'm assuming that the OOB grid is something added by the Tribes munchkins not Epic.

I dont know what they actually did, but I hope it's a large (relative to the map design) maneuver area between the OOB and the map edge. If it's more like a TR2 map, that could be limiting. Hope it isnt like that. :)

Edit - I think zones are just a way to fit 10 pounds in a 2 pound bag - a paging system of sorts to accomodate resource limits. Some of the ONS maps seem fairly large, although I havent taken their dimension.

I got the impression that OOB and bouncy wall were the same thing.. So....

http://www.suavesports.org/py/tv_oob.gif

Right?


Yes, you can do it like that.

Likewise, you can have the bouncy grid within the flag area as we saw at E3 on the arnea map.

Just a few quotes pulled from the dev tracker about the mission areas.

All the maps have a finite size, of course, usually determined by the terrain. It has to end somewhere, like you said :)

Quite often the OOB grid is set to be just short of the physical limitations of the map anyway. This allows a lot of exploration while still making it clear that the play area ends.

OK, you're confusing issues here. Everybody seems to get this wrong for some reason. The grid wall (it won't be very bouncy - you'll loose energy if you try to bounce off of it) is not the same as the T1 & T2 OOB areas. Imagine instead a wall about 50 meters from the edge of the T1 map, to keep you from falling off the edge of the world (or flying a vehicle under the map). We can put that border wherever we want, but the default is at the edge of the world. It's really a non-issue. A matter of map design, and not a static setting in the game. Don't expect that you'll see a bouncy barrior 50 feet behind the flag.


Out-of-bounds grid

In typical outdoor missions the boundary is far enough away that you can set up a variety of cap routes. Think Snowblind or bigger in terms of mission area. There's lots of room in Snowblind for evading chasers and (if the flag was in the open) setting up routes.

The OOB grid will be visible when you're near it and will also be clearly marked on your radar and command map.

http://www.tribesvengeance.com/us/screens/images/screenshot_02.jpg

^^ that really gives me the chills.
The complicated flag stand scares me. Reminds me of the punishments in T2 (classic) for grabbing too fast.

I doubt it will be the same in T:V though.

it almost looks as if it is deployable. Scary possibilities there.