An in-deapth look at Vengeance armor design

It's good to be original, but I'm absolutly against this. The project goal is to create models that can stand next to the originals. If this was contained there wouldn't be a problem, but I don't think people would take the models seriously (and thus not use them) if they stuck out too much.

I was thinkin' the same way, I'm gonna keep the contours and stuff pretty subdued so that they'll still look cool, but not really garish enough to be awkward next to the base models.

I think NecroSen's on to something with that cross shape, though, I might wanna play around a little with that.

I have a hard time seeing any cultural motivations behind the existing armors
Just looking for influence is all. Nothing's really decided at this point.



I was thinking octrahedron/decahedron/dodecahedron would be pretty cool shapes. Maybe something radial, yet polygonal, kinda like a spiders web.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Dodecahedron.html

It's a logical step to step up the numper of sides, but it gets tricky with compex polygons.

A Square is unique for example but there's not much differnce between a septegon and decagon for example.

I do find this interesthing however:
http://gbgm-umc.org/umcor/images/diamond.gif
diamond, 5 sides -- there might be something to that.

if you think about it you curretnly have 1 3 and 4 sides, so the how about a shape with 2 sides. i think a moon shape might look good like this shape, and if you rotated it 90degrees you could still make a T like shape helmet...
http://www.ph.u-net.com/mavica/moon/r/moon-990419-2032r.jpg

This is getting ahead of myself, but a moon would be perfect for Starwolf. There's that whole luna wolf thing going on.

Ok lucius. My roomie is working on some concept art stuff.
No promises as to wether it will fit with anyone's vision though.
I have great confidence in his abilities though.

I showed him the DS guy in the T1 manual (Data's sig), he says there is a definite greek/roman influence to that Armor. I tend to think he's right.
Since I assume everyone likes that design, it might be a good place to work backward from.

Who did that first model? It's pretty good. I like how it sort of mimics the DS symbol. :)

I don't get the samurai idea... Diamond sword has always been focused on medival culture with a zen tie-in. Zen isn't samurai and the armor types are completely different from feudal europe.

I say go more for Knights of the Crusades style.

For general tribal aesthetic, i'm going to quote the post i made in the original diamond sword project thread (http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267159&page=1). :)


From what I gather here is the cyborg look is important. For some reason this doesn't mesh well with the diamond sword philosophy to me.

You seem rather well versed in tribal history, so perhapes you could explain something. From what I can tell, the DS are much more peaceful than the blood eagle, or at least they don't believe in the same "might makes right and let's kill everything" stance the BE take.

If that's the case why are the BE armors always humanized where as the DS are made out to be cold robot types. Is this just the original skinners ignoring tribal backstory? If so, I would prefer to follow the backstory than the original skins -- unless there's a reason why the DS personality would promote a cybornetic feel.

I don't get the samurai idea... Diamond sword has always been focused on medival culture with a zen tie-in. Zen isn't samurai and the armor types are completely different from feudal europe.

I say go more for Knights of the Crusades style.

I think it's a mistake to go with just one historical armor design as a template.
Mixing up a bunch of styles is good. Just so long as it doesn't end up looking silly.

But yeah, I agree, the armor has always had a very crusader look to it.

Well, like I said I won't be able to make bodies, but if someone produces a general dummy body I can build armor into and around it. As for a DS model going 'against' the design concepts of the three, whos to say this is WRONG? You could argue that the BE is a mix of CP and IP as the BE armor has a roundy, not block look, but with 'pointy' elements.
To make a DS one, you just need to come up with a median mix of the same shapes that define the armors on their own.
Besides, these differences never existed before with the exception of the BioDerm. lets all be a bit more positive here, as this is a rather large undertaking but worth the effort.

Actually or modeling won't be limited to just armor. We'll also have lots of architecture to do later on, but I don't even want to begin discussing that.

I will however release the source of anything I personally create.

I volunteer to help with the Diamond Sword project for T:V - I know how to use Maya and 3DS quite well and have done some stuff for UT2004, which uses the same engine. Haven't published anything though.


The more help the better, but first we need to find out what we're modeling ;P :]

Does lucius have me on ignore or something?
:(

I think you're on the right track, Luci.

My only concern is getting the models/skins to work with the game, given the limited scripting ability, and our almost complete lack of knowledge on how 3rd-party skins and models can be used with the engine. Has anyone from Irrational made any statements about this recently? I don't recall Thrax commenting specifically on that aspect in the original DS Project thread...

There is a basic form in that shot, though, Neek: it's a cross, made by the bow and arrow.

I can see that design philosophy in the models posted in the original thread:

http://www.phoenix-blaze.com/~sirlucius/dspose3.gif

The same cross formed by a sword, and the same as the original emblem. There is also the half-moon from the center of the emblem, which can be used in the design of the breast plate.

Almost everything in the original design follows the basic structure that is everything we know of the DS. The feet could be reworked, but it all comes together.


I've avoided mentioning the cross b/c I wanted to start from the ground up for any new angles. It's still a welcome foundation though.

The more help the better, but first we need to find out what we're modeling ;P :]
Get Blackice in here. :p Tell him to put The Pope on the project ASAP.

I'll be back full swing in about 2 weeks.

I don't get the samurai idea... Diamond sword has always been focused on medival culture with a zen tie-in. Zen isn't samurai and the armor types are completely different from feudal europe.

I say go more for Knights of the Crusades style.

Technically, yeah...that always did weird me out, the DS in the official fiction and crap are always all Zen garden one-hand-clapping Oriental-style beatniks, but their armor is decidedly Western.

Still, if the CotP can go from practically buck naked in T1 to fully armored in T2 and T:V, I don't see why, if the majority of people decides that it's cool enough, we can't go with designs with more of a samurai motif than the old style.

Does lucius have me on ignore or something?
:(


I'm getting to you, I got lost >:0


Ok lucius. My roomie is working on some concept art stuff.
No promises as to wether it will fit with anyone's vision though.
I have great confidence in his abilities though.

I showed him the DS guy in the T1 manual (Data's sig), he says there is a definite greek/roman influence to that Armor. I tend to think he's right.
Since I assume everyone likes that design, it might be a good place to work backward from.

Who did that first model? It's pretty good. I like how it sort of mimics the DS symbol. :)


The DS guy from the manual is based off of art by Lewis Royo. Everyone thinks it's the coolest tribes art in the history of ever so I made some models influenced by it based on the cross as in those screenshots. I think it's wonderful art, but I'm not sure if an exact model could stand next to the other armors. It might, I dunno. I'd like to see what your roommate comes up with though.

Technically, yeah...that always did weird me out, the DS in the official fiction and crap are always all Zen garden one-hand-clapping Oriental-style beatniks, but their armor is decidedly Western.

Still, if the CotP can go from practically buck naked in T1 to fully armored in T2 and T:V, I don't see why, if the majority of people decides that it's cool enough, we can't go with designs with more of a samurai motif than the old style.
Because I said so, that's why. pffftttthhh

I actually prefer the Knights of Templar style over samurai. :-\

I've avoided mentioning the cross b/c I wanted to start from the ground up for any new angles. It's still a welcome foundation though.
If we're going to use a shape, why not the diamond?

That's like, a huge DUH. :p

http://www.italiasoftware.it/imagina/compart/DIAMOND.jpg

Or, better yet, turn a rhombus on end and go with it.
http://www.ogs.state.ny.us/curatorial/common/images/Rhombus1.jpg

:shrug:

I think you're on the right track, Luci.

My only concern is getting the models/skins to work with the game, given the limited scripting ability, and our almost complete lack of knowledge on how 3rd-party skins and models can be used with the engine. Has anyone from Irrational made any statements about this recently? I don't recall Thrax commenting specifically on that aspect in the original DS Project thread...
I imagine you could make the basic designs and decide on a style now though.

The actual modeling and animation will have to come whenever IG decides it's time to release the models/skins/animations.
We won't know what we are working with in terms of where the moving bits go and stuff until we get our hands on those.

Say, didn't Thrax say that they might try to release some engine tools and skins and stuff a while before release?

We might have to wait until Tribalwars to grill him on that. :hrm:

My only concern is getting the models/skins to work with the game, given the limited scripting ability, and our almost complete lack of knowledge on how 3rd-party skins and models can be used with the engine. Has anyone from Irrational made any statements about this recently? I don't recall Thrax commenting specifically on that aspect in the original DS Project thread...

I have no doubts that it will work out fine b/c we're essentially creating a mod. It's not a gameplay mod, it's a graphics mod contained within the maps. When the time comes we'll have no problem finding a script monkey to put it all together.