What Kind of Mods........

mods have their place even mods like renegades (yes, because they are more popular then the base game). I would even agree that there are bad mods but that doesn't make mods bad which seems to to be the prevalent theme here at TW (don't make me start quoting posts, I wouldn't decide where to start) . The fact is and it is a FACT, that more people play mods mods are more popular and mods make the developer more money. We have the classic mod that added no new content except for maps (big deal) so even when the members here bad mouth them they still play them.

Were you bitten my a mod when you were a noob Yogi?

When most people started playing, they probably tried out a base server, got owned hard, and tried a different type. Let's face it, the "OMFG did you see that!!" factor is pretty low for new players playing base Tribes. They aren't skilled enough to pull off the cool moves we see in videos.

Mods, at least good ones, create fun new roles that keep people in the game. With new equiptment comes the need for new tactics and new skills. Was Base fun for you before you learned how to ski? What about mine disking, or mortar and disk jumping? In a mod that has boosters, a noobie can get the same speed rush easier, and doesnt need to beg some veteran to teach him.. A well balanced mod can hold your interest longer as new tactics and methods unfold..

Some of you mod freaks are retarded. We're not saying that all mods are bad, just the "mods" that are just "base plus extra shit". You can't argue that most T1/T2 mods are just "base plus extra shit". We want mods that are real mods, ie. TAC, CS, DoD, ect.

Oh, having more T1 type mods != more money. Having more CS, DoD, TAC mods may make the developer more money.

I wouldn't call mods crap, considering many of the "new" Vengeance items/features have oddly been in T1 mods (and possibly T2 since I've never played them) for a while :P

Its too easy to cal them all crap, because almost all of them are.

And as for mods having thier own place, well, there is always that lil spot, just above the TAA players, youll always have that

I'm hoping for no mods what so ever. It's no good diluting the userbase.

EDIT: Never mind, you seem not to be THAT far gone.

The "I hate Renegades mods because they're just base plus extra stuff and they siphon off potential base talent" I can respect, the "all mods are bad, even the unique autonomous ones" I will never respect. Thankfully, you seem to opt for the former.

Knee-jerk comments like that from a man in such a position to represent the community at large do aggravate me, however, because more often than not it is the knee-jerk sentiments that are closer to one's true feelings...

I follow you Ben. You can see by no mods I mean no silly stuff. If you're going to spend your time making something, make something worthwhile. That's how I address my projects.

I'd rather see:
Lots of people playing base
Lots of people playing SS:2845
Lots of people playing Total Conversion X

And not:
Some people playing base
Others playing "base plus some other stuff #1"
Some others playing "base plus some other stuff #2"
A few playing "base plus some other stuff #3"
A few more playing "base plus some other stuff #4"
Colosus playing with himself
Mofo playing with Moker

But again, that's my opinion. I hope that makes sense and people can follow the logic and see the distinction that I am drawing between something like Ren and something like RPG Mod. In my mind there is a gigantic difference.

I'm going to come to Yogi's defense on this one because I hated T1 MODS in the early days precisely because of the "OMG Base is too hard let's add shit to blow stuff up easier" mindset that seemed to drive them.

Were you bitten my a mod when you were a noob Yogi?

When most people started playing, they probably tried out a base server, got owned hard, and tried a different type.

I don't know about most people but when I started playing all that was available was base servers. Most mods really didn't start dropping until summer of 99. By which time I was firmly ensconced in front of my PC every evening playing base until my eyeballs bled. What I hated was joining a server only to discover "WTF? This isn't Tribes."

What was even MORE infuriating however was when I would try and win friends over from Quake or UT and they'd hop online and almost invariably their first experience would unwittingly be Renegades or Shifter or Insomniax and they'd come back saying "Hey, that game sucked. Why bother?" Which left me having to explain that "No, that game didn't suck. The mod you caught did. Let's back up and try again."

Was Base fun for you before you learned how to ski? What about mine disking, or mortar and disk jumping?

I know I'm going out on my own on this one, but yes. Tribes was MUCH more enjoyable for me before the advent of the ski route and the disc-jump and the mine-disc. I learned to do them all because they became requisite survival skills, but they each and every one diminished my enjoyment of the game from the blissful first months before emergent gameplay tanked the balance I fell in love with in January. I understand your point though, namely that getting owned is not nearly as fun, but mods are not the solution to that problem. Tweaking the learning curve and controlling emergent behavior are the solutions to that illness which all online games must cope with.

Yes MODs are a good thing, as I said before, but I'm going to have to agree with Yogi on this much: Not many mutators are actually worthwhile additions. I expect we'll see at least half a dozen mutators in the first six months of Vengeance's life-span (Everyone's going to try and make their own 'Classic' to remedy the things they don't like) and I expect five out of six to actually be hurtful to the gameplay experience of the newbs. The excellence of the sixth however, will not excuse the asininity of the other five.

I agree with the idea that a mod slapped together to correct something in base would be rather silly at this point, since we are all hoping that nothing in base will need correcting.

There will be good mods, there will be shitty mods, and there will be fantastic mods. This we cannot change because it is first by the whim of the creator, and then by the whim of the audience. All we can do is shun the ones that play the shitty mods, but even then I don't believe it detracts from the experience.

Here are a few suggestions I think we can live with:

Ship the game with a default filter that blocks out all modded servers. There can be a Yes/No column for whether a server is modded or not, which the master server can authenticate as the server connects. Simple enough, and it allows the newb to enter a base game without being tricked.
Create a mod (and missions) that can train people to do advanced maneuvers in the base game. If your concern is that the newb will tuck tail and run from base servers after being owned, then you can fix that by allowing them to train for skiing, disk jumping, MAing, etc. in an open environment with other people, not just bots. The experts can also teach their skills to the newbs and help them to learn the latest techniques without downloading new missions built for it.

Mods are not a bad thing. Amateur modders that are just sticking things together are not helping the game, but they are trying their best (hopefully). I think a little more constructive criticism is needed this time around.

As a tangent to what I just said: all filters should include the element "remove all renegade servers." :)

I agree with the idea that a mod slapped together to correct something in base would be rather silly at this point, since we are all hoping that nothing in base will need correcting.

There will be good mods, there will be shitty mods, and there will be fantastic mods. This we cannot change because it is first by the whim of the creator, and then by the whim of the audience. All we can do is shun the ones that play the shitty mods, but even then I don't believe it detracts from the experience.

Here are a few suggestions I think we can live with:

Ship the game with a default filter that blocks out all modded servers. There can be a Yes/No column for whether a server is modded or not, which the master server can authenticate as the server connects. Simple enough, and it allows the newb to enter a base game without being tricked.
Create a mod (and missions) that can train people to do advanced maneuvers in the base game. If your concern is that the newb will tuck tail and run from base servers after being owned, then you can fix that by allowing them to train for skiing, disk jumping, MAing, etc. in an open environment with other people, not just bots. The experts can also teach their skills to the newbs and help them to learn the latest techniques without downloading new missions built for it.

Mods are not a bad thing. Amateur modders that are just sticking things together are not helping the game, but they are trying their best (hopefully). I think a little more constructive criticism is needed this time around.

As a tangent to what I just said: all filters should include the element "remove all renegade servers." :)


Holyshazbot, your the only one that does make since good job man keep up the work. I Do agree with you!

Gametypes:

-CTF
-Ball
-Fuel
-Duel (probably)
-Territories?
-DM? (pretty much a must-have)


Mods:

-God forbid any.

AMEN



Can I get AWOMAN too?