What Kind of Mods........

Not all mods are bad, Look at TAC.

I'd like to see a T:V version of Deathball, but other than that tribes mods have always sucked.

Tac!

Mods are generally a very good thing for the player base, the logevity of the game, and for the community as a whole. The problem is that T1 suffered from a few (two in particular come to mind) relatively popular but very deeply flawed modifications that instead of proceeding from a solid game design precis just experimented with adding "stuff" to Tribes base gameplay. This was exacerbated by the fact that those mods were indistinguishable (to newbs) in the server list from the 'real' Tribes gameplay that they were fiddling with.

Then T2's total lack of stability (read: ability to spontaneously ram your PC in the ass with a plunger handle) prevented there from being any real remedy to the situation because only the most devoted mod teams from the existing fanbase were willing to subject their work to its perverted mood swings. There was no enticement whatsoever for the very talented and creative members of the mod community to invest their effort in that train wreck of a game engine.

Tribes Vengeance will attempt to finally remedy this perennial weakness in the franchise by first turning the tables on the issue with the adoption of the Unreal Engine (go to where the modders already are instead of requiring them to come to you) and secondly by raising the profile of the franchise with a (hopefully) well executed single player experience.

Personally I think that Vivendi's strategy here is superb from a business-sense perspective. The base gametype can turn into an abysmal failure (naturally they neither expect not intend for it to) if only they have a few very well liked and well designed MODs out there to satiate the multiplayer masses. In the meantime the SP element will continue to drive sales (SP sells boxes, end of argument) regardless of the performance of the built-in gametypes. All it will take is for one CounterStrike or Desert Combat to strike a chord with the online audience and no one will care wether or not Vengeance's base gametype was as good as Tribes 1 except those of us cloistered here in the halls of the Tribes Fanatics Asylum.

Now that is not intended to denigrate the momentous effort the team at Irrational is investing in creating a fun multiplayer experience, or to say that it will be any sort of failure, abysmal or otherwise. Rather the point is that the Vengeance model, by design, does not place all its eggs in one basket. If the multiplayer falls short (as many of you believe that it did in T2) it will not necesarilly tank the franchise. The game can still be a smashing success on both fronts if the SP experience is well liked and the game is adopted by a few talented mod teams. I think of this as a sort of mutated Valve model myself, but call it whatever you like the design is well thought out and intends to emulate the successes of those who have triumped before while striving for the conquest of some new territory.

(Note that all this assumes stability, which shouldn't be an issue for Vengeance. If it is we can kiss the franchise goodbye. Two in a row would pretty well sound the death knell for Tribes. At this point though I don't think any reasonable person expects them to release a buggy game. Aside from the fact that everyone involved has to know it would be suicide, the reliance on a tried and true game engine as their core codebase provides a pretty firm foundation upon which to develop and Irrational's track record is superb. QA should have an easy job this time around.)

Will it work? Hell, I don't know. But I think it has a fair shot. In any case, I'm eagerly anticipating a few good mods. Mainly because the direction the MP appears to have taken fills me with a boiling rage that even my extraordinary vocabulary is strained to its limits to adequately express. I've made no secret of the fact that I am deeply aggrieved by the heavy injections of "sports" oriented thinking that have gone into the multiplayer development. As such I expect I will have to find a good mod in order to enjoy this game in multiplayer, but I happen to know of at least one that will capture my attention for a good long while and Vengeance is not even to BETA yet. There is no telling what the next year will bring to this community in terms of mod development, the possibilities really are endless.

So despite the fact that a part of me would like to travel back in time and arrange for a few well orchestrated accidents to befall certain indviduals who have helped bring us to this point, I also know that when all is said and done I'll probably wind up being a pretty satisfied customer anyway. This winter I may not get the specific multiplayer Tribes experience I've been longing for since 2000, but I do recognize that the total gameplan for Vengeance opens doors to a lot of things that I probably will enjoy and is likely to keep my favorite franchise alive for another sequel. In my book, those are all very good things, mods included.

Not all mods are bad, Look at TAC.

:rolleyes:

I can honestly say if Tribes 1 DIDN'T have any mods...



I would have stopped playing about 3 years ago.

A hell of a lot of people probably wouldn't have bought Tribes 2 either. Mods are a very good thing, don't bash em -_- Think about where some of the inspiration for the new stuff came from originally.

That was a great post configsys.

The main problem with T1 mods is to the new guy is pretty hard to distinguish between what servers are running mods and which are running a proper game of base.

When a new player installs tribes now they're more likely to end up in a mod server then a base one.

There is a difference between saying CS is a mod and Renegades is a mod. CS isn't the same old game with the same general weapons just super powered with little else in the creative department.

The guys working on SS:2845 on the other hand are creating a new experience with the game. They aren't mounting a sniper rifle to the top of a disc launcher and calling it a crossbow. It's from the ground up like CS and other mods for other games.

Tribes and Tribes 2 suffered from these "base plus some other stuff" mods that fractured the player base who are all essentially playing the same game, but not playing together. You can't say that about HL and CS.

I think the days of sticking two weapons together and calling it something else are over. With the new engine comes new capabilities like auto downloading of maps and all I think we will see a much higher quality of mods coming out. Those that say "Mods are gay and should be banned" are just idiots and should be banned themselves.


I am already not happy with what I have heard about how turrets are deployed and remote inv's not having deployables. I intend to change that right away as well as other things

I'm hoping for no mods what so ever. It's no good diluting the userbase.

Me to, personally i h8 mods.

Mods make the world go round.

I dont so much hate mods, just the newbies that play them.

yea, i hate how like 99/100 of FPS action going on at any moment online is on modified games (maps, total conversions).

that is so bad, you know... how folks make cool stuff for us to play for free, by choice, and stuff.

i mean, i REALLY hate options.

and dilluting the user base by adding more people is always stupid. we should play only pure games with the other 15 cool people.

yea, i hate how like 99/100 of FPS action going on at any moment online is on modified games (maps, total conversions).

that is so bad, you know... how folks make cool stuff for us to play for free, by choice, and stuff.

i mean, i REALLY hate options.

and dilluting the user base by adding more people is always stupid. we should play only pure games with the other 15 cool people.
I think you're missing what we're saying.

Mods like ren - bad
Well thought out mods like TAC - Good
Total Conversions like CS - Good
Making people think that Ren is T1 by way of the T1 server browser - Bad

I think that sums up the thread if I'm not mistaken.

I think you're missing what we're saying.

Mods like ren - GREAT!
Well thought out mods like TAC - Good
Total Conversions like CS - Good
Making people think that Ren is T1 by way of the T1 server browser - Bad

I think that sums up the thread if I'm not mistaken.



fixed

ren was a great mod? Because a lot of people played it?

Lots of people smoke crack, doesn't make it good. Good example too since crack is a cheap version of cocaine for those who couldn't afford it. Where as ren was a cheap version of base for those who couldn't play it.

Look Yogi in one post you say you want no mods for whatever dumb fuck reason then in the fucking thread you say certain mods are good. which the fuck is it yogi?
make up your mind

PS I bet the devs LOVE mods.

I want none of the no thought, uncreative mods like ren, shifter, etc. None of the "omg my chaingun now fires 2 bazillion bullets a second and I have nukes" mods.

I have no problem with mods that are developed with some thoughtful elements. A good example is TAC.

Total conversions, like RPG mod and Screaming Fist are good too. Ground up rebuilds to create an essentially new game.

The term "mod" in Tribes is a little different than in other games. In a Unreal environment something like ren would be considered a mutator. It makes smaller changes to the game. In general a lot of the mutators, like their tribes counterparts, are rather bad. Especially when compared to real projects like CS, Urban Terror, etc.

Therefore I stand by my original statement. I do not want to see any mods. I hope to see plenty of good TCs (SS:2845 is well under way and I can't wait to play it).

Lots of people smoke crack, doesn't make it good.

actually, if it gets more people playing tribes i personally dont give a damn what they smoke.

wish more folks around here would get beyong the narrow zealousy.

if TV mods emerge which are popular... it makes the pie bigger. fighting over slices is petty.

did Desert Combat kill BF42? no, it added serendipity. Did Counter Strike "dillute" half life onlnie? no, it added serendipity.

did Classic mod or Tac or TR or any custom maps HURT tribes? no, they added serendipity.

the endless babble about "what i like" isn't the point.

respect those who spend time/energy making stuff for games EVEN WHEN you don't like it. just respect it.

hating and flaming the mod community is ... silly

did Desert Combat kill BF42? no, it added serendipity. Did Counter Strike "dillute" half life onlnie? no, it added serendipity.

did Classic mod or Tac or TR or any custom maps HURT tribes? no, they added serendipity.



But that is exactly my point. Those types of "mods" are good. The Total Convresion type.

What I am saying is bad is the multitude of crap that gets generated by UT mutators and Tribes mods (like I said in the different environments they are essentially the same, different terms). I think Insta-gib in UT is just as stupid as Ren is in T1. However, CS is just as quality as RPG was in T1, or race mod in T2, or SS: 2845 in T:V.

The pie might be getting bigger, but some of it is made with rotten apples.

Gametypes:

CTF
Fuel
Territories
Ball
Arena

Those are the ones I've heard of from the devs so far. I don't think Arena was guarunteed though.