The simple way to prevent smurfs and easily identify people.

By the way, I agree with most of the stuff Siward has say overall. He has a good grasp on what's being discussed. Ixterra unfortunately either doesen't or really likes to smurf.

Ix, the reasons you've listed for wanting to smurf are extremely weak and don't hold water at all. Saying "Wah, I'm drunk but I don't want people to know I was drunk", then accusing everyone else of giving being paranoid about reputation while you aren't is absolutely laughable.

This system not only makes smurfing more obvious and hard to do in match play, but the more you prevent smurfing, the less dumb behavior you see on pubs (or the good pubs). Sure there'll be jackasses regardless, but you'll have less competent people acting like jackasses on purpose to fuck up pubs if they know other people will know its them. This is a good thing. Most people who play games would agree its a good thing. Because it reduces the amount of people acting like 5 year olds who ruin pub play.

As Siward said, I don't expect everyone to log everyone, but the fact that you realize someone could easily have you marked and figure out your smurf is enough to deter you from doing this.

Ok, and now I come to one of my strongest points. You keep saying you want to play under any name you want. There's NOTHING stopping you from doing it, and changing your name. You can permemently change your name from Ixterra to Tixerra if you so desired. Then go by that name everywhere. Except people would still know you're Ixterra, and for most people who change names this is a very good thing. It allows you to keep in contact with people you know, which is an AMAZING boon to your casual player. The only people who want to go anonymous and wipe any record of their existance are people who have no friends or were large enough idiots as to make most people hate them. At any rate, hardly any people get into this state, and if they do it's not worth scrapping the rest of what could be an amazing system just for their sake (which is a weak one at that).

I'm sorry Ix, but you haven't made any compelling arguments towards your case, and most everything you've said regarding it is just flat out weak.

By the way, I agree with most of the stuff Siward has say overall. He has a good grasp on what's being discussed. Ixterra unfortunately either doesen't or really likes to smurf.
You agree with him because he agrees with you, so let's pat yourself on the back for realizing that! Congratulations! And since I disagree, I don't understand! ZProtoss, go fuck yourself.

Someone needs a nap.

You agree with him because he agrees with you, so let's pat yourself on the back for realizing that! Congratulations! And since I disagree, I don't understand! ZProtoss, go fuck yourself.

I should note too, that your only reply to mostly well written arguments to what you've written is, "I NEED THE RIGHT TO BE COMPLETELY ANONYMOUS, FU ALL", while ignoring all the positive aspects we've brought up. You ignore many points, and came to this thread with a very hostile attitude. I'm not sure who lit the fire under your ass, but it certainly hasn't helped you make a cohesive argument in this thread. :shrug:

You agree with him because he agrees with you, so let's pat yourself on the back for realizing that! Congratulations! And since I disagree, I don't understand! ZProtoss, go fuck yourself.

1) Because this is a convoluted idea that will not, I repeat not solve the problem of interweb video game "jackasses" as we've referred to.
2) Because I let people play Tribes on my computer all the time under different names, and don't want to be accused of doing something I didn't do (such as being a newbie, playing like an idiot, etc.).
3) I will also play pretty drunk sometimes on the weekends (sometimes I smurf, though usually not). Chances are I will embarass myself occasionally while doing so. Definitions of fun can sometimes be different then, and I don't need to be harped on because of it. I'll play the game how I want to fricken play. It's a god damn pub.
4) It's a god damn pub. If someone is acting like a total jackass, that's what admins are for. If they're playing like a jackass within the server rules, deal with it. Even if you knew who it was, what is that going to accomplish? "Ohh XXX I saw you smurfing on poopoo's server yesterday and you were playing like a jackass, wah wah wah apologize or I'm never talking/playing with you again." You just want the knowledge so you can confirm your suspicions and feel better about yourself. It does absolutely nothing for the game.

In the case where someone might smurf as a powerful tribe/triber, that's what a buddy list would be for. You can request to add someone to your buddy list, and they have to approve it. You will get sent their GUID and from then on you can find them no matter what name they're using, and you'll know if it's them you're playing with.

Other than that, it's not going to matter if someone smurfs as someone else, because there's nothing anyone can do about it (except for the server thing I mentioned earlier).

Satisfied?
The thing you're completely missing here is the concept of accountability.

It stops people from being jackasses because if i'm the server admin and "Ixiterra" joins the server and is a jackass, i can ban him. then 5 mins later if "im_a_dumbass" joins the server, and my smurf script shows that it's a smurf of the "Ixiterra" account, i'll ban him too. likewise for all other smurfs thereof. i'm sure if the smurf script were in place, they'd create an admin script to autokick-ban all smurfs of the nick initially banned.

that's how it stops people from being jackasses.

in regards to "my friend came over and HE was the one that was using all the cheats, not me!" - you're responsible for people using your account. if an account on my server does retarded crap, i ban that account, i don't care if it was the owner of the account or his good buddy. it's your account, you're responsible.

you're right, it is a pub, and the rest of the people on the server shouldn't have to deal with BS if they don't want to. that's why there are admins. the smurf script would allow admins to be that much more effective at stopping people trying to ruin it for others.

this isn't a difficult concept. simple solution for you - don't do things to piss off other people, or else play on a server with a bunch of retards who don't know the difference.

I should note too, that your only reply to mostly well written arguments to what you've written is, "I NEED THE RIGHT TO BE COMPLETELY ANONYMOUS, FU ALL", while ignoring all the positive aspects we've brought up. You ignore many points, and came to this thread with a very hostile attitude. I'm not sure who lit the fire under your ass, but it certainly hasn't helped you make a cohesive argument in this thread. :shrug:
I did not get hostile until the :rolleyes: was brought out. And there were no arguments at the point when I joined this thread. Just a bunch of whining at someone who disagrees.

The thing you're completely missing here is the concept of accountability.

It stops people from being jackasses because if i'm the server admin and "Ixiterra" joins the server and is a jackass, i can ban him. then 5 mins later if "im_a_dumbass" joins the server, and my smurf script shows that it's a smurf of the "Ixiterra" account, i'll ban him too. likewise for all other smurfs thereof. i'm sure if the smurf script were in place, they'd create an admin script to autokick-ban all smurfs of the nick initially banned.

that's how it stops people from being jackasses.

Except servers already have your GUID, not to mention your IP address, so this whole point is moot. If your GUID is banned, you can't join the server. That's why I said earlier if you are a jackass outside reasonable boundaries, any admin can ban your GUID (temp or perm) and problem is solved. Of course admins aren't around all the time, but there's no fix for that.

There is no smurfing in the server's eyes.

Right on Verm. Smurfing for faggotry, even if it isn't Ixiterra being one, can be a very annoying problem if there wasn't some kind of anti smurf system in.

I did not get hostile until the :rolleyes: was brought out. And there were no arguments at the point when I joined this thread. Just a bunch of whining at someone who disagrees.



Anonymity makes people more prone to be jackasses.

Why is it so important for you to remain anonymous? I tend to believe it's for my above reason if one is so passionate about it.

Not saying that's necessarily true. I just don't understand why it would matter much otherwise.

:lol: Do you really think it matters? Anonymous or not, people are going to play like jackasses if that's what they plan on doing. The server can see your GUID, so if an admin sees fit to ban you, it will ban you and all of your smurfs.

It's a fricken internet video game; I don't see any convincing reason why anybody should know who I am if I do not want them to. If the server wants to set up an anti-smurf thing, that's fine, I suppose. Maybe set up like a 10 or 15 day waiting period before they're allowed to use a different nick if they decide to change it. Something like that. But that is at the server's discretion. So all of the supar l33t servers like 5150 can set that up and all the whiners like you can play only there if you'd like.

What do you call this? Being friendly? Calling random people on a forum whiners is not hostile, or at the very least an attempt to be hostile?

What do you call this? Being friendly? Calling random people on a forum whiners is not hostile, or at the very least an attempt to be hostile?
I wasn't being hostile, just tit-for-tat. You insinuated I was a jackass for wanting to be anonymous.

So my reasons for wanting to be able to remain anonymous are "insufficient," but this blanket statement is the definitive answer to everthying smurf? I don't think so.

First of all, I don't know how that's a blanket statement since I did not state it was a definite effect. And no, it's not a definite answer. As I said before. I just believe it would help tremendously.

You think it would help. Very strong argument; but mine are insufficient, even though I gave real-world examples and you ridiculed me for it.

Your "real-world examples" are very weak points in my opinion. It's your account, it should be your responsibility. If you get drunk, play and make a fool out of yourself, it's still your own fault. That's like someone being in a bad mood being an excuse for getting that person banned from a server.

I think you need to step back and realize what you're doing. You're arguing for the sake of arguing, and attacking my points yet providing none of your own (I'm sure my insulting manner helped with that, but regardless you haven't made a point). The only thing I've drawn from either of you is that "smurfing is bad." I offered two extremely good compromises that would solve the problem for anyone who had a problem with smurfing. But that's not good enough, because smurfing would still go on unchecked on other servers, and "smurfing is bad." Do you see what I'm getting at?

"Smurfing is bad" was never my point. I just believe this will deter people from acting like idiots. This is something I think most of us would prefer regardless of being a pub or competition.

It's a huge pain in the ass to go through GUID logs and IP logs to figure out who someone is. The methods being discussed in this thread are not only far easier to deal with and manage, but they also allow the client that same ability as well. What you're basically saying, "because there's a total pain in the ass way of finding someone out, there's no need to implement a much easier system that more people can use!". Give me a break.

Except servers already have your GUID, not to mention your IP address, so this whole point is moot. If your GUID is banned, you can't join the server. That's why I said earlier if you are a jackass outside reasonable boundaries, any admin can ban your GUID (temp or perm) and problem is solved. Of course admins aren't around all the time, but there's no fix for that.

There is no smurfing in the server's eyes.

It's a huge pain in the ass to go through GUID logs and IP logs to figure out who someone is. The methods being discussed in this thread are not only far easier to deal with and manage, but they also allow the client that same ability as well. What you're basically saying, "because there's a total pain in the ass way of finding someone out, there's no need to implement a much easier system that more people can use!". Give me a break.
You give me a break! All a fricken admin has to do is click their name and hit ban.

Bans which are almost always temporary aren't nearly the deterrent to acting like an idiot (and note too that not all idiotic behavior is ban worthy per say but it CERTAINLY is a detriment to the pub), like a powerful smurf detection utility would be. Particularly on high end comp servers.

Ix, most of your points made in this thread revolve around, "I want to be anonymous so I can play/act in a crappy manner without ruining a rep" or something of that tone. Wah I'm drunk, *MUST SMURF*. Wah my friends playing, gotta send him to the competition server on a new name! Wah I wanna fuck around and act stupid, *MUST NOT* ruin rep. These are incredibily weak reasons. The sad thing is, we're only focusing on one part of this right now as well, and not all the other positive elements outside of smurf prevent. Things like getting to know a certain group of players well, and knowing that you're playing with the same guy from yesterday, and not someone else with a different name. Things that give the community as a whole more of a feeling of knowing people which certainly contributes to the game more than everyone using different names all the time.

At any rate, this is a somewhat pointless cycle we're in now. You're going to be constantly restating weak reasons without anything solid to back them up. It may be your personal opinion that anonymity to games is the best thing ever, but its been proven beyond the threshold of opinion that it isn't. As verm said, accountability is key to improving pub play as a whole, and if you can't see that you're missing one of the major points in this thread.

You give me a break! All a fricken admin has to do is click their name and hit ban.

Bans which are almost always temporary aren't nearly the deterrent to acting like an idiot (and note too that not all idiotic behavior is ban worthy per say but it CERTAINLY is a detriment to the pub), like a powerful smurf detection utility would be. Particularly on high end comp servers.
How is client smurf tracking going to be ANY better at idiot-deterring? Oh an idiot joins, so the entire server drops? Or one person knows he's an idiot, so he drops? Yeah, MAJOR solution there buddy! I mean, OMG, this completely solves the problem of people acting like idiots! You are a genius. Even if you think it will help, however small, it is still nothing in the grand scheme of things. It won't amount to doing jack. Hate to give you a dose of reality, but there it is.

High-end competition servers could simply disallow smurfing as I stated earlier, and that would be a much better solution. Letting clients know who is smurfing accomplishes nothing.

Thanks Ixiterra for gaying up a good thread :(

Still a great idea, for those of us who would make use of it.

If you generally play on Name A, and everyone knows you play on name A. If the clients know when you join on Name B, that you're name A, you are far less apt to act like a jackass because there's accountability. If you don't think that has any effect on how people handle themselves in servers, you do not have a grasp on reality. Because its one of the main reasons why people smurf, and why most people dislike smurfing as a whole.

It's not a "small" thing in the large scheme of things, its a much larger thing than you think it is, and it certainly has a notable effect on pub play. At all levels of the spectrum, even lower ones. It's certainly not a "high end elitist only" feature like you're trying to paint it. Letting clients know that someone they know is smurfing accomplishes quite alot.

Of course, the entire system is rendered worthless if a server doesen't pass the client GUID info. So you can make the default the standard smurf/player identifying system displayed in this thread, and give servers the option to turn it off and allow free reign on smurfing. I got news for you though. Not many servers would take the extra step to disable the system, because most people would see it as a beneficial thing due to all the reasons that me, siward and others have listed in this thread.

How is client smurf tracking going to be ANY better at idiot-deterring? Oh an idiot joins, so the entire server drops? Or one person knows he's an idiot, so he drops? Yeah, MAJOR solution there buddy! I mean, OMG, this completely solves the problem of people acting like idiots! You are a genius. Even if you think it will help, however small, it is still nothing in the grand scheme of things. It won't amount to doing jack. Hate to give you a dose of reality, but there it is.

High-end competition servers could simply disallow smurfing as I stated earlier, and that would be a much better solution. Letting clients know who is smurfing accomplishes nothing.

No kidding. All it takes is one person without a clue to mess up a thread that otherwise had alot of good discussion and great ideas. Oh well.

Thanks Ixiterra for gaying up a good thread :(

Still a great idea, for those of us who would make use of it.

Bleh, I don't like the idea, sorry. I think it's more invasive to put it in the clients hands rather than the server, personally. I understand the issues, concerning match play, as far as pubs are concerned... there is where the term tough shit comes well into play.

Anyone should be able to remain completely anon when playing an online game, debilitating that for match play opens up greater evils imo than keeping it a trust relationship between players.

The ramifications on ladders are what should be severe, not the spyware/snoopware that is capable of sniffind out who is who on the client, fuck that. When I join a server I agree that the operater of the server can know who I am by guid, macid, ipaddress, etc... but I sure as hell am not making an agreement that says every other client on the system can know who I am.

In an effort to reduce cheating, we have already lost the ability to script the game, which was one of the greatest things about Tribes. Basically now we have the Game Developers telling us exactly how we will be playing the game rather than allowing the players evolve the game as they see fit. I guess that isn't enough of a loss for some people though, everyone should have a mark of the beast available for any other person to scan at will just in the off chance you're a smurf... :ugh:

Bleh, I don't like the idea, sorry. I think it's more invasive to put it in the clients hands rather than the server, personally. I understand the issues, concerning match play, as far as pubs are concerned... there is where the term tough shit comes well into play.

Anyone should be able to remain completely anon when playing an online game, debilitating that for match play opens up greater evils imo than keeping it a trust relationship between players.

The ramifications on ladders are what should be severe, not the spyware/snoopware that is capable of sniffind out who is who on the client, fuck that. When I join a server I agree that the operater of the server can know who I am by guid, macid, ipaddress, etc... but I sure as hell am not making an agreement that says every other client on the system can know who I am.

In an effort to reduce cheating, we have already lost the ability to script the game, which was one of the greatest things about Tribes. Basically now we have the Game Developers telling us exactly how we will be playing the game rather than allowing the players evolve the game as they see fit. I guess that isn't enough of a loss for some people though, everyone should have a mark of the beast available for any other person to scan at will just in the off chance you're a smurf... :ugh:

You act as if everyone will know your real name, phone number, and home address. All they'd be able to do is tell that you're the same person with multiple names if you choose to use more than one.

And comparing this to the loss of scripting over cheating is outrageous. It's not as if they'd be taking away some wonderful feature to add the ability to associate nick names. I was very much into the customization of T1. I was extremely disappointed that the ability to script would not be in T:V and am very worried that skinning might be limited. Yet this idea does not scare me at all.

You're blowing this way out of proportion...for what?