[T:V] The sensor system

Could you address the deployable sensor issue? I mean honestly, you guys put in a deployable slot that seems tailor made for a deployable sensor, but are using an all or nothing solution instead. Other than simplicity and to place a ton of emphasis on the sensor, why make the thing cover the entire map? I can appreciate the need to make the game more accessible, but you don't have to make everything cut and dry.The reason I like the all or nothing variant (I didn't at first, but I do now) is that it makes another base item vital to protect. Much like the generators, your sensor is important to keep running. Adding deployable sensors dilutes that, and makes the base sensor somewhat unimportant. Just my opinion.

The reason I like the all or nothing variant (I didn't at first, but I do now) is that it makes another base item vital to protect. Much like the generators, your sensor is important to keep running. Adding deployable sensors dilutes that, and makes the base sensor somewhat unimportant. Just my opinion.

In the proposition I made (http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6305469# 6305469), I suggested that if the main Sensor Dish is destroyed, all other deployable sensors should stop functioning. This would preserve the importance of the main Sensor Dish, while not making it essential to gameplay.

T:V has a sytem similar to T1 waypoints, which is in turn similar to UT2K4's flag icons. Objective icons stick to the edge of your radar and show a range. So, an option is to not have a flag icon in the HUD at all but preserve the flag icons in the radar. The radar flag icons still give you an idea where the flags are, but don't allow you to pinpoint exactly where.




Yeah this sounds much better IMO.

T:V has a sytem similar to T1 waypoints, which is in turn similar to UT2K4's flag icons. Objective icons stick to the edge of your radar and show a range. So, an option is to not have a flag icon in the HUD at all but preserve the flag icons in the radar. The radar flag icons still give you an idea where the flags are, but don't allow you to pinpoint exactly where.

Remove the flag icon from the HUD and I'm all for this. I'm still not sure about the one-sensor system, though =/

The reason I like the all or nothing variant (I didn't at first, but I do now) is that it makes another base item vital to protect. Much like the generators, your sensor is important to keep running. Adding deployable sensors dilutes that, and makes the base sensor somewhat unimportant. Just my opinion.

Yeah but it also hurts alot if your team's strat doesnt revolve around HO or whatever. Just doing a cluster strat or something to that effect where as you could bring out some well placed portable INVs/pulses in T2 and do such things. Now this way is forcing you to upkeep the base. I dont mind that much but im just throwing out ideas to you.

Awareness is my favourite skill in Tribes. I play Tribes like it's a mind game. So I know where the concerns are coming from.

But I also appreciate how it's sometimes nice to get a more strategic, overhead view of the situation at any given moment. If sensors are challenging to repair and destroy, it will be up to your respective teams to decide how important this extra information is to you. That's the whole idea. If you feel it's giving your enemies a huge advantage, take it out and keep it down, thus forcing them to use their wits and awareness or spend time trying to repair it. (Repairing tends to be more fun in T:V because you can fight while you repair).

Sass and Apo, I read all of your posts. But if you take this idea all the way, you have to consider what effect it will have on both teams, not just the deploying team.

Have you ever had the lovely task of hunting down and destroying numerous deployed enemy sensors in T1, especially if that's the only thing that someone on the enemy team is doing? It's frustrating, in my opinion. I don't mind finding and destroying enemy turrets because they tend to be placed near the action, and I don't mind finding and destroying an occasional deployed sensor. But numerous deployed sensors distributed widely across the entire map...I just never had much fun flying around looking for them. Did you? Is there something I'm missing?
KP

(Repairing tends to be more fun in T:V because you can fight while you repair).
Whoa...I haven't heard that tidbit before. Care to elaborate, or point me to where I can learn more? As someone who spent an inordinate amount of time repairing things, that sounds like a pretty neat change.

I don't mind finding and destroying enemy turrets because they tend to be placed near the action, and I don't mind finding and destroying an occasional deployed sensor. But numerous deployed sensors distributed widely across the entire map...I just never had much fun flying around looking for them. Did you? Is there something I'm missing?
KP
Wasn't much of a problem if you were a sniper. (Laser rifle made it easy to take them out if they weren't really well hidden.)

I personally dislike this idea.
Deployable pulse sensors and maintaining a sensor network with the correct coverage allowed for opportunity to innovate and add variation to the gameplay.

Whether its the LD on raindance trying to get their sensors out before the first wave of cappers hits, or the offence hitting the base hard enough to give the D a break to get a few extra's out, it adds another dimension to the game.

Its not a crucial part of the game, and has no effect on pubs whatsoever, but I feel it was an important if minor detail in competitive games.

I think with somethine like sensors, it should be an opportunity to add some complexity without affecting the ease with which players can get into the game.

I think that at the -basic- level, T1 and T2 had very intuitive systems. Your system is less intuitive imo, and removes the potential for innovation besides.

Additionally, you don't -need- to make sensors any more important. They were already crucial due to the speed cappers moved at. While the rest of the dev team might not know that, i'm sure you do KP.

Thrax:

That is a fair enough reason. I still think the main sensor should be important enough to keep up, but not overpowering. Apotheosis' idea or something similar sounds like a nice compromise.


KP:

Also good points. Ok it looks like you beat me to the punch on my point about repairing being a tedius job, so instead, I will just leave my other point. Couldn't you keep deployable sensors in by just limiting their numbers? Being able to deploy 3-5 or so per map (map maker could decide) would restrict just dumping them all over the place, and make strategic placement all the more important.

Whoa...I haven't heard that tidbit before. Care to elaborate, or point me to where I can learn more? As someone who spent an inordinate amount of time repairing things, that sounds like a pretty neat changeMatt put up a nice review of all the packs. Check the news section. In short, the repair pack repairs everything in a radius around the wearer when triggered, so you just need to stay somewhat close to your repair target while you're fighting (or deploying, or whatever).

Matt put up a nice review of all the packs. Check the news section. In short, the repair pack repairs everything in a radius around the wearer when triggered, so you just need to stay somewhat close to your repair target while you're fighting (or deploying, or whatever).
http://www.tribalwar.com/articles/index.php?articleid=65

I think that at the -basic- level, T1 and T2 had very intuitive systems. Your system is less intuitive imo, and removes the potential for innovation besides..I'm not sure how "see everything" / "see nothing" is less intuitive, but whatever.

I like the new way... just needs to have some slight "tweaks".

I don't have any say on what to tweak yet untill Beta...

...

Sass and Apo, I read all of your posts. But if you take this idea all the way, you have to consider what effect it will have on both teams, not just the deploying team.

Have you ever had the lovely task of hunting down and destroying numerous deployed enemy sensors in T1, especially if that's the only thing that someone on the enemy team is doing? It's frustrating, in my opinion. I don't mind finding and destroying enemy turrets because they tend to be placed near the action, and I don't mind finding and destroying an occasional deployed sensor. But numerous deployed sensors distributed widely across the entire map...I just never had much fun flying around looking for them. Did you? Is there something I'm missing?
KP

A possible alternative to finding all the deployed sensors would be to just destroy the main Sensor Dish. When it goes down, the deployed sensors should cease functioning as well.

Perhaps have the *main Sensor Dish* (only) also be able to detect enemy sensors that are within the net's range. This would discourage players from placing Deployable Sensors too close to the enemy base, since once the enemy's sensor net is back up (or if it remains up), the position of their deployed sensors in range would become visible to the enemy.

Additionally, the number of Deployable Sensors available to the team will be left up to the map maker, as one station will only be able to "handle" a single Deployable Sensor. The maker can limit the teams to just one or two Deployable Sensors, making them a valuable asset, and again, preserving the importance of the Sensor Dish (since they will be useless without the Sensor Dish operational).

Edit: Actually the "Repairing tends to be more fun in T:V" point is a good one, and I temporarily forgot how the new Repair Pack functions. This makes me feel better about having it as a "vital" asset.

I think HOing the dish or defending the dish as one objective would be more fun than deploying them from deployable stations, or hunting around to find and destroy them.

i like the new system, and flag finder ala UT2k4 when sensors are up is better than a flag waypoint on the actual flag, imo.

Agreed with Ruckus.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I am guessing the generator(s) and the sensor will be linked correct? So if gens are down sensor is down as well?

I'm not sure how "see everything" / "see nothing" is less intuitive, but whatever.

with the level of intellect you seem to assign to the average new player, they're going to have no idea whether their sensor is up or down.

It seems that according to you a player cant grasp basic concepts like heavies carrying more weapons than lights, or repair kits etc, so I'm sure the idea of a fixed sensor relaying information to them suddenly going down and changing what they can and can't see is quite beyond them.

If you're looking at someone in T1/T2 within a certain range, they have a red triangle. If they don't, zoom in and they do, hey hey. Thats pretty damn simple, and thats all a new player needs to know, and something they would figure out within the first day or so of play.

Under your system, a new player will be running around, all of a sudden all the red triangles are going to disappear and they're not going to know why.

T1/T2 system: Look at an enemy, they have a red triangle.
T:V system: Sometimes an enemy will have a red triangle, sometimes they won't, depending on something potentially on the other side of the map.

This is not more intuitive, its just less complex.

From what I understand, the sensor being up or down determines wether people have foe indicators, and also showing the enemy flag carrier. I like the idea of how the sensor system is going, though I would also like to see it implimented in a way to have it so that when the sensor is down, you can still have a strategic way of having a somewhat-sensor-network. I suggest you giving people a way to 'tag' an enemy with a indicator. This should only work only within a certain range of your team's sensor (when it is down). I'm thinking of 'tagging' as once having the enemy take up a certain percentage of your screen... so if you zoomed in on them and keep them on screen for 2 or so seconds, it will give them a 'tag point'. And once two (or soon be be decided number of) people tag each enemy (seperately), then a indicator shall be placed onto thier head. This will stay there until they die, or until they move out of a certain range of the sensor.

Now with the whole flag-finder thing... i think that needs to be re-thought out instead of latching that on the idea of the sensor being up/down also.
(i will edit this post with an idea when i get back from going outside (taking a comp-break)

I think there are many ways this could be done, but Im just going to go over the extemes, and the middle of the two. First off, you could keep it the way I think I understand it, that being the flagcarrier indicators show up wether your sensor is up or down. I dont like this idea for two reasons. One being that it makes the sensor too importaint in my opinion, and two being that I think it gives a permanent flag finder through moutains/bases. I played t1 and t2 comp, and I always thought that the perm-flagicon in t2 was too much. Now, the other extreme... having little-to-no flagfinder. Give the flag carrier an easier to be seen indicator over thier head when within visible range. This could be done with a different shape, or color, or whatever (different from a red triangle). You can maybe even increase the "them being in your LOS gives them this icon", making it a little easier to see them them on your sensor network then normal enemies. (maybe teamates that are in meduim distance of the flagcarrier can be given an extra line or something under thier green arrow to indicate that they see them). The in-between of these two, will be the exact same as the previously mensioned one, but with one addition. And that is that every time the flag carrier is added to any one teamate's sensor network, that the enemy holding the flag gets that flag icon that everyone on your team can see through any object for a second or two with a small ripple (circle or two that expands out of them, and disapates when it gets a certain size). This blip will also be accompanied by a sound effect.

With the deployable slot being seperate from the pack slot, I think that while holding a pack and a deployable it should give some sort of movement restriction. I dont really care how slight, but maybe you could make the restriction differ depending on the armors. The jetpacks on the heavier armors should be much stronger since they have to move much more weight to begin with, maybe they could have a less of a restriction. So that makes people want to use non-light armors to deploying offensively. And it not really matter on defense, since the spot to deploy is proabably much closer.

side note: i also like the idea of the new UT game's "arrow of direction/waypoint".