In-Depth Pack Toggle discussion thread [+pics]

Up until T:V... The repair pack may show up in harrassers/LO as well... and I wouldn't put it past HO to start out with it... Being able to perform your job (draw the enemy LD out of position or get to the enemy base fully healed) despite the occasional snipe or other damage (DJ) would help immensely in both jobs.

Think it's going to depend on exactly how (and how well) it works.

Agreed. I'm only saying that the repair pack seems the most defensive out of all the packs based on the information.. never having tried the packs. I'm kind of giddy about the new packs. I like how each pack is useful beyond very specific roles. I mean, I can already imagine a defensive group comprised of at least 3 of the 4 packs. Can you imagine? You take an already specific role of LD.. and you can almost specialize your character based on your style. So now your role on LD becomes even more specific, based on your strengths and weaknesses as a player. I think that is great, because it just adds that much more depth for players.

Because, as I've said before, I don't like the give and take philosophy. The drawback of the packs, right now, is that while you have an energy pack, you can't take advantage of a shield pack. Or while you have a shield pack you can't take advantage of the adrenaline pack. That might not sound like much, but each pack has it's own advantages. If you are engaged with someone wearing an adrenaline pack, or a shield pack, and you are wearing an energy pack.. you don't think that one pack might provide an advantage over another?

The idea of power-ups is not accurate, because everyone can take advantage of them. Someone used the example of quad damage.. well.. quad damage can be used by one person, and then it respawns later. Everyone can use packs. Each one has an advantage to it, and each one is useful in different ways. In other words, each one has a specific role in the game. This is important, because if you're caught outside of that role, you will be at a disadvantage.

Another thing to note.. if your base goes down.. you will be at a disadvantage.


The problem in that is that, the pack give such an advantage over no pack at all that to me, someone who isn't wearing one has next to no change of killing the other (that's really only for the shield pack tho). How would you go about killing someone who, at the touch of a button, because 4 times as hard to kill for the next x seconds.

Seems to me that it would become much harder to exploit someone's weakness against them, but I guess we'll see all of that in the beta.

Max

In T2 arena I had a hard time making the repair pack for for me. It is definalty no the pack to fight with.

In T:V, if the regeneration rate is high enough though, it might be a pretty cool pack to use.

T:V is designed so that people can play naked. After all, three of the packs give you movement equivalent of being naked. The energy pack just gives you super movement.

But the T:V packs don't allow clustering. Your team cannot give up the base and go offense and win the game. If you try, you will get owned by the enemy players, because you will be playing at a strategic disadvantage.

The problem in that is that, the pack give such an advantage over no pack at all that to me, someone who isn't wearing one has next to no change of killing the other (that's really only for the shield pack tho). How would you go about killing someone who, at the touch of a button, because 4 times as hard to kill for the next x seconds.

Seems to me that it would become much harder to exploit someone's weakness against them, but I guess we'll see all of that in the beta.

Max

Well, keep in mind that one on one engagements was never that big a part of Tribes CTF. So it's not like you're both going to just duel of a sudden, and he'll be packed and you won't.

But that's exactly the reason I do like it. Packs were never a big reward in Tribes for keeping your base. It was the armor and weapons that rewarded you.. now think of maps like Stonehenge and Raindance, in which some teams would simply ignore their base and try to cluster. Doesn't sound quite as effective now, does it?

T:V is designed so that people can play naked. After all, three of the packs give you movement equivalent of being naked. The energy pack just gives you super movement.

But the T:V packs don't allow clustering. Your team cannot give up the base and go offense and win the game. If you try, you will get owned by the enemy players, because you will be playing at a strategic disadvantage.

Damn, you beat me to it.

T:V is designed so that people can play naked. After all, three of the packs give you movement equivalent of being naked. The energy pack just gives you super movement.

But the T:V packs don't allow clustering. Your team cannot give up the base and go offense and win the game. If you try, you will get owned by the enemy players, because you will be playing at a strategic disadvantage.

I will concede you a point there, that's something I hadn't considered...

Max

without reading the thread, i have to say this... those pics = :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:, nice job

im looking at the speed pack as being handy for LO who are clearing a flagstand with a nade launcher. i think the major balance issue here is ensuring that its a 50/50 decision about whether to take a speed pack or a shield pack for people doing indoor combat, as opposed to ignoring it in favour of a shield pack. one scenario that it may come down to is whether the base is more open (speed pack being more useful, we've seen some really open base designs from t:v) or more restricted (t1/t2 style, shield pack more useful imo due to abundance of splash)

i have no beefs with the non-toggle for the shield pack, i think it'll make camping harder which is fine with me. id prefer a tribes that emphasized action outside rather than inside, i always found flag HO 100x more fun than base rape.

energy pack, looks good... the boost doesnt newbify anything, just smooths out the bumps

repair pack...neh, need to see it in action in beta

If you make the sheild pack toggleable a skilled player in a sheild pack will rape anyone with the other packs. Unless they plan on altering the effectiveness of the sheild its a terrible idea to make it toggleable.

The way the packs work will be fine, we've been doing this with beacons in mods for years. Shield beacons, cloak beacons etc. All timed uses, actually they were timed with no recharge, once used that was it. But you could carry more then one depending on what type of beacon it was.

Anyway, it will work out fine with minimal tweaking I think.

The way the packs work will be fine, we've been doing this with beacons in mods for years. Shield beacons, cloak beacons etc. All timed uses, actually they were timed with no recharge, once used that was it. But you could carry more then one depending on what type of beacon it was.

Anyway, it will work out fine with minimal tweaking I think.

I have no idea what you're talking about, but okay.

How would you go about killing someone who, at the touch of a button, because 4 times as hard to kill for the next x seconds.
I'd trick him into activate it (probably with a few CG or a blaster shot), then kill him when it deactivates. He has the same mobility (immobility) as me. :shrug:

Last night, I wanted the toggleable shield, but almost 24 hours later, I've changed my mind.

I'm also the same. But possibilities are always open and nothing is certain. Vets are all mentally intuitive when it comes to playing a game of Tribes - like pro chess players who move pieces mentally on a chessboard and see a different world from that of the new player. Any small change can jeopardise this. But nothing beats having the chessboard (T:V beta) in front of you with another player, so don't be too sure until then. It's all baseless speculation, assumptions and grey hairs in the making for the devs until then.

About the shield pack - one possibility would be to have it so that the pack timer/shield bar stops every time you activate/deactivate, conserving shield use in uneventful situations. Everyone has gone into combat below health numerous times, why shouldn't the shield pack feel any different, except like a reusable life? If you wanted to recharge, you could have a quick drain function which toggles after holding the pack toggle button down for a couple of seconds. You can effectively 'reload' your pack for multiple uses with greater tactical foresight. This wouldn't give you an advantage in a combat situation, where death often comes quickly and the long recharge time is an unacceptable vulnerability. You can change your attitude to an offensive or defensive one at any time in combat - and if the enemy wants to kill you, it's wear'n'tear all the way. It also creates some interesting opportunities for misjudgement and ensuing ownage. It could add more variety to shield use with the ability to do pack-managed SDJ's (shield DJ's) in a light armor, which has less health in T:V coincidentally, a perfect balance, further encouraging use of an arguably defensively used pack for offensive roles in CTF.

I'd trick him into activate it (probably with a few CG or a blaster shot), then kill him when it deactivates. He has the same mobility (immobility) as me.

Remember, having the shield pack activated with full jet functionality would cause the player using it to be more aggressive in combat situations. You'd probably be at a disadvantage and have to run like a sissy before having the one-up on your bish.

No, it's not how the old shield pack worked. The old shield pack still penalized you by taking the damage you would have sustained off of your energy instead of off of your health. Since packs are not tied to your suit energy in T:V that gives you just a 1/4 health penalty, which is not enough. I think that saving you from 1/4 damage all the time and the ability to be 3/4ths invulnerable for a short time is plenty powerful, and has plenty of room for being used skillfully or not skillfully.


Wouldn't this mean that a guy with a Shield pack is pretty "sniper-proof" (Or alot less prone to being sniped). So even in passive mode, a hit to head minus 25% leaves a medium armour in the "yellow" still? A head shot isn't really a head shot anymore, so standing out on a leadge to defend the flag isn't like asking to be O-sniped as much as it currently is?

I'm just thinking what it would be like to use the T:V shield and how it effect my mentality. See if this jives for logic;

If a light takes a headshot in T1 they lose, 95%?

95% minus the 25% for the passive shield leaves the light with a loss of 70% (approx)

At which point he switchs on the pack and takes another 95% hit to the head, but minus 75% for a loss of only 24% of his remaining 30%

After 2 headshots this Light Armour is still alive with a potential Health Meter sitting at about 5% and he still has full Jet power to evade, dive or run and if this was T1, our Light Armour would still have a health pack to boost himself out of the red to avoid even cratering?

Does that sound right? Granted, the health values of T:V armours are different and the power of the Sniper Rifle isn't the same (prolley similar). However it just goes to show the effect 25 and 75%, though seemingly small, can have is potentially quite potent. I think I like it. This must make the chaingun pretty wimpy for those 5 seconds.