[T:V] so whats the flag going to look like?

Personally I rather like the movable flag, but could live without it. That said, I agree that it should not slide like the T2 flag does. I despise chasing that damn thing down slopes.

They better come up with an explanation to how the flag magically attaches itself to the ground then. ;)

It deploys a tiny little grappling hook at the base when it touches the ground. :D

Being able to shoot the flag and move it almost completely eliminates high-speed pickups. High-speed pickups are fun. I doubt you'll be able to move the flag much, unless there's some really good reason for it I don't know about.

testing my new fuzzy sig

The "shootable" flag does allow for shot pickups... however it also allows for shooting it into bases, holes, water, etc. And having one person on "flag watch" midfield can interfere to the point of making a midfield pickup impossible. While you likely WILL get damaged on a stationary midfield flag pickup, you WILL make the pickup rather than getting it disced out of your path and having to llamagrab it, if you pick it up at all.

The anticipated CTF team size is 7-10. At those numbers, I think it would be infrequent that there would be many defenders trying to keep the flag hopping.

The point about disking the flag to a more secure location is valid, but it can also be thought of as an extra learning point for grabbers ("the defense sees me so I'd better abort this grab or we won't be able to touch it for another 40 seconds").

I guess it will be fine either way, but it would be a loss I think not to have the pleasure of a nice flag control play in T:V.

The anticipated CTF team size is 7-10. At those numbers, I think it would be infrequent that there would be many defenders trying to keep the flag hopping.

The point about disking the flag to a more secure location is valid, but it can also be thought of as an extra learning point for grabbers ("the defense sees me so I'd better abort this grab or we won't be able to touch it for another 40 seconds").

I guess it will be fine either way, but it would be a loss I think not to have the pleasure of a nice flag control play in T:V.

Definately how I see it playing out.

I get the sense that some describe a CTF game with movable flag is 30 minutes of discing a flag around. This is simply not true. A dropped flag in pursuit is usually immediately returned by LD, or regrabbed by enemy LO.

Typcially it's secured close to home, disked to the side of a building/tree and a mine dropped on it. Even when that's the case, a skilled capper can disk to the left or right to free the flag for a quick grab. It just takes a bit of skill.

It does add an element to the game I like to see stay. Open beta will tell.

(days seem to be draggin now, please don't be late T:V!!)

:)

And hopefully they'll drag out until at least the 6th of May, because if the T:V beta comes out during finals week, God knows I'll NEVER get a passing grade.

Being able to shoot the flag and move it almost completely eliminates high-speed pickups. High-speed pickups are fun. I doubt you'll be able to move the flag much, unless there's some really good reason for it I don't know about.


That's not true at all.... It's just a lot harder to do... and nearly impossible to do consistently....

The flags should be moveable... it makes it WAY too easy to D a flag that can't be moved

It's a lot more fun when the flag can be disced around

I simply must disagree. While I've seen the shootable flag used for fine control of flag position (and I acknowledge as much), what sticks out in my mind are all the times where the flag was simply being thrown around haphazardly, without much rhyme or reason.

This mainly occurs depending on the number of people attacking the flag. A few, and the chance for skilled flag control increases. Many, and the chance for skilled flag control decreases.

What are you disagreeing with? That the Offense can take advantage of the flag moving? They can. It happens a lot more often when there are less people around the flag yes, but then again, i think field grabs in general are much more likely to happen in both games when there are less people around the flags.

Field grabs are definately more challenging with the movable flag though, simply because when you're approaching the flag you have 2 different things you could shoot to try to help you grab. In T1 the only choice is to hit the D, because the flag is going to stay where it is.

I'm not saying it isn't stupid when you have 6 LD around a flag disking it all around, but if you were in the same situation in T1 you probably wouldn't be able to pull off a field grab either.

Another thing of note is that T:V is being designed for smaller team sizes, and thus, you probably won't run into situations where you have a ton of LD around a flag in the field like you did in 16v16 base T2.

And hopefully they'll drag out until at least the 6th of May, because if the T:V beta comes out during finals week, God knows I'll NEVER get a passing grade.
beta wont be til beginning of july...they arent even in alpha yet

I get the sense that some describe a CTF game with movable flag is 30 minutes of discing a flag around. This is simply not true. A dropped flag in pursuit is usually immediately returned by LD, or regrabbed by enemy LO.

Not at all. However most flag grabs that do not result in a same capper cap tend to result in a standoff or return. Personally I think having a stable flag makes the game more interesting, as you have to actively defend a dropped flag if you don't return it immediately. Having the flag bounce to hell and gone because you've got 3 people and they've got 3 people in the general location of the flag isn't interesting to me. There's no "control" aspect to a flag that you cannot predict the exact path of. Sure you can predict the general way the flag will bounce, however predicting exactly how it will bounce is necessary if you plan on picking the flag up after you bounce it. a couple of meters off and your grab is ruined. Bouncing the flag when you're too far out just gets you dead because the defender can adjust. Bouncing it when you're too close just gets you hurt by your own disc, and likely dead because you "disc-braked" yourself. I feel the stationary flag better fits the feel of the game, with less slowdown due to 20-40 second flag bouncing parties.

Not at all. However most flag grabs that do not result in a same capper cap tend to result in a standoff or return. Personally I think having a stable flag makes the game more interesting, as you have to actively defend a dropped flag if you don't return it immediately.

Even with the movable flag you have to actively defend it.


Having the flag bounce to hell and gone because you've got 3 people and they've got 3 people in the general location of the flag isn't interesting to me.


I don't recall bouncing from hell and gone.. it at most bounces a few meters with disked. When it's 3 v 3 around a flag, it creates (to me) a strategic situation. Do 2 of the players distract/kill the enemy and allow the 3rd to go for a grab? Or do you just send all 3 after? It's not much different than a stationary flag at that point, cause if the 3 of them just shoot at the flag over and over, the 3 going for the flag will just kill them.


There's no "control" aspect to a flag that you cannot predict the exact path of. Sure you can predict the general way the flag will bounce, however predicting exactly how it will bounce is necessary if you plan on picking the flag up after you bounce it. a couple of meters off and your grab is ruined. Bouncing the flag when you're too far out just gets you dead because the defender can adjust. Bouncing it when you're too close just gets you hurt by your own disc, and likely dead because you "disc-braked" yourself.

The control comes from putting the flag in a more secure location. Rather than sitting out in a wide open field for an easy grab. Personally I do think there's the ability to bounce the flag in your direction for a grab. Often followed by a disc jump.

And if you aren't able to grab, then the LD are "controlling" the flag by discing away from you, and it's quite possible to disk a flag to the left or right to avoid an enemy grab. This is called controlling the flag.

There's way more to it then just blindly shooting at the flag to prevent a grab. I also think there's more predictability than you suggest when moving the flag.

That's the main problem I have with it, it plays toward defense to bounce the flag around.

Reasoning: playing a bouncing flag offensively is much more difficult than defensively. To grab a flag using the bounce you not only have to hit it in a window of opportunity that is extremely narrow, you have to hit it perfectly so that someone firing on the flag's initial position won't hit you or the flag enough to ruin your run, you must do this on the enemy's terms (due to the possibility of mines near the dropped flag, and defensive placement of the flag), and even if you make a perfect bounce grab, you are still faced with a impromptu route to get back to your flag.

Basically the stationary flag plays well for offense, the bouncing flag for defense.

It deploys a tiny little grappling hook at the base when it touches the ground. :D
End of off-topic discussion right there!!!
Bah I'm a T2-player and don't see a problem with a moveable flag. Ok if the enemy LD disc it to a super-secure spot, sure np then we'll focuse on taking down all their turrets, gen etc while waiting for the flag to return. Not that hard to improvise really. :shrug:

I think it benefits whoever actually knows how to exploit it better. Generally, that's going to be the defense though, because it's a lot easier to disk a flag out of the way of a capper than it is for a capper moving at a good clip to bounce a flag into his own path.

as a capper/lo.. i love moveable flags. i still pick them up all the time (hi jslut) without a huge amount of trouble usually.. then in standoffs, it enables me to make returns that i wouldnt have survived long enough for otherwise, by discing it into myself. its just another skill to master.. once you do, its quite effective.

I'm sure making the flag a static object or a moveable one wouldn't be too big of a task although I do prefer being able to shoot the flag around. As for how the flag looks, it's a flag, just that, a flag.

i couldnt care either way whether or not the flag is moveable once it lands midfield. the tribes 2 flag is much easier for defense. you can shoot it into corners and you need less defense around it midfield. Tribes 1 flag is geared towards the offense. You dont have to worry about it moving around when you try to grab it, less defense at the base so a capper can start a route and get the flag before the rest of the defense gets back from defending the flag midfield. what would be best is a mixture of both. maybe limited movement or only one weapon can move the flag (grappling hook perhaps?). if the dev team doesnt have this quite figured out maybe there should be an option in the beta to have the flag be moveable or not.