Instead of a laser pointer that takes up a weapon spot

how bout a beam that shoots out of the helmet, or chestplate that acts the same way. Sort of like how a light would act in half-life (or numerous other games) except instead of a flashlight, it's a pointer. That way, it wouldn't confuse newbies, and it would serve the same function. You wouldn't press the 'fire' key, you would have to press another key to turn it on and off.

The point is that no matter what you do, it takes time to do it. Wait until everything else is done. If there is time, things on the "secondary" list will be worked on. Until such time, just sit there and be patient.

http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283679

I read the post, perhaps you didn't. The last line is...

Because it still takes time to model and build it and I'd rather spend that time doing other things.

Even if you don't have to model it, it still takes time to program it in and test it. Time that could be spent elsewhere.

I read the post, perhaps you didn't. The last line is...

[Thrax quote here]

Even if you don't have to model it, it still takes time to program it in and test it. Time that could be spent elsewhere.

DeWald, let me say that I am honestly refreshed that you have not taken an outright stand against the inclusion of the targeting laser. I believe your "wait and see" view on the subject is a very logical and admirable view, and I respect it.

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And to Thrax, I want to say that I apologize for not being diplomatic enough in making my case for the targeting laser (in that I would've gotten better results had I asked nicely like Data instead of going into a tirade, but I enjoy tirades far more than asking nicely, they blow off so much steam and tend to generate more public attention), but I want to say that I still did not appreciate being blown off when I did, in fact, ask serious questions of you on the subject.

As for your rationale behind its current omission, now that it is finally known to the public, I have to say that the issues you bring up regarding the targeting laser are very minor problems at best.

The newbies can be made aware of the targeting laser's non-weapon nature through the manual, in-game loading screen tips, tutorial missions, etc., and it can be seperated easily from the guns that do damage by (a) mapping it to an entirely seperate key like L, which I'm pretty sure they did in T2 (I never played much and don't remember a lot about it), and (b) not giving it a gun-style model like it was in T1. It can simply be a beam emitted from the player character's gauntlet, helmet, or other body part, thus saving the dev team the trouble of modeling a gun for it in the first place.

You are correct that the targeting laser's primary use in serious play was as a glorified pointer, mostly in team practices far more than match play. However, I disagree with you as to the extent that this function is significant. I believe that the targeting laser is indispensable as a tool for pointing during such practice sessions, and I see team communication on delicate, position-specific subjects such as turreting greatly inhibited by its omission. However rare, there are instances when voice chat and in-game chat cannot articulate positions with the clarity and directness of the targeting laser. It is, in fact, the Finger of Pointing in Tribes, and I believe that role is significant enough to merit its inclusion.

There you have it.

I don't really know how they are going to allow general communication between teamates. The targetting laser was used a helluva lot to point out interesting things real-time on the map (capper, other shazbot etc ...)

I sure as hell don't want type OR talk that sometimes when I pub.

Not a good idea to take it out imo.

they care more about pub play (where you aren't going to use the laser pointer) than comp play....which is completely understandable, seeing as how 90% of the people that buy the game will play it only in pubs.

true, but where does this notion come from that it isn't used in pubs?
Am I the only one that uses it pubs for communication (sometimes that is)?

they care more about pub play (where you aren't going to use the laser pointer) than comp play....which is completely understandable, seeing as how 90% of the people that buy the game will play it only in pubs.
I see it used in T1 pubs all the time, primarily to get the attention of teammates who are ignoring the flag carrier or to point out incoming enemies.

There's a contractual arrangement with the developer, and most likely they agreed to a scope document of some sort that did not include the targeting laser some time ago. While there's likely some provision for change, there's probably also monetary penalty to Vivendi for that. And while there's likely some room for such oversights (or frivolous additions, depending on your view) set aside in the budget, its reasonable to keep that reserved for Important things until you're finalized the program enough that you're pretty sure nothing Important is going to come up. And at that point, its also much more expensive to add anything, because you have to regression test, add to the key bindings you thought were done, possibly update manuals, consider introducing the player to it somewhere in the single player, which might involve recording some new dialog, etc.

the targeting laser was always handy for pointing things out :/

i use the targetting laser all the fudgeing time for strategery

i use the targetting laser all the fudgeing time for strategery
mmmmmm http://www.frigateportjefferson. com/images/zoom/fudge.jpg strategy :slurp:

how about making the "knife" weapon thingie shoot a constant beam instead of projectiles or whatever? that way you could use it to point something out

or maybe making it rapid fire and highly visible (obviously make sure each shot is still weak)?

that would allow you to use the "knife" thingie as a pointer, which is the primary function of the targeting laser in T1/T2.

i can understand the arguments about time spent modeling etc (although heck, just rip a model from t2).

whats starting to piss me off is the justifications for changes based on 'simplifying the game' so it doesnt 'confuse new players'. the kind of simplification we're talking about sounds like its aimed at helping out 6 year olds. honestly, do you really think the average gamer has such a low level of intelligence that they can't figure out how to use a laser pointer, or why a heavy armour has more weapons than a light?

edit: guess im also just a little worried about how much people are going to be listened to in beta. It seems that whenever comments here are made (off top of my head, again, laser pointer and weapon slots), the only people arguing for the change are the people at IG. I know that changes during the development phase are difficult to do, but i think its giving a bad feeling.

Krytoss, even still, T:V is looking to be a very fun game to play. It's built on a solid engine with tested stability and performance (unlike T2). We already know it's FAST (unlike T2). We know vehicles are in and they aren't REQUIRED (unlike T2). These have been the main gripes about T2 and they have pretty much been answered.

Now we have people fretting about very petty things. Things that won't make or break T:V. It should be known that the competitive community WILL have to make a "Comp" mod and/or "Practice" mod. There's no way IG can get everything into the game we need/prefer to compete/practice.

T:V is avoiding everything TW has complained about since T2's release. They, in addition, are making some subtle changes to combat a key area of Tribes play, the learning curve. All these things make for a game that can be played by the masses. That's needed to really get gamers to finally experience "Tribes".

We have KP and Thrax on the job, they know what works and what doesn't. They've played competitively. Try to atleast hold final judgement for Beta, I have good faith in IG.

:)

honestly, do you really think the average gamer has such a low level of intelligence that they can't figure out how to use a laser pointer, or why a heavy armour has more weapons than a light?

He doesn't think it, he knows it and I agree.

We have KP and Thrax on the job, they know what works and what doesn't. They've played competitively. Try to atleast hold final judgement for Beta, I have good faith in IG.
:)

trust me, i agree 100% and i have full faith in them. just dont like the feel im getting from the responses that we've been getting to alot of concerns, petty or not... whats the point of having discussion here if the devs have already made up their mind on things?

they care more about pub play (where you aren't going to use the laser pointer) than comp play....which is completely understandable, seeing as how 90% of the people that buy the game will play it only in pubs.

Thats where I use the TL the most....pub play

posting before it gets locked.


wsup?

I'm a big fan of bonus packs.
So I hope it will eventually be released in some sort of free bonus pack: A couple of extra maps, a laser pointer, and maybe an enhanced admin toolset.
Just some extras to keep high interest alive after the game has been out for 4-5 months.