[T:V] Vehicle Balance fix

True, Vehicles always being very useful doesen't make the game vehicle centric. In T2 classic, having a good shrike is very helpful (worth using it you have one), however it's only a small part of the entire puzzle and the game doesen't revolve around it. It's an advantage when one is up, but the balance tempers it so that the balance does not revolve around *it*.

A balance revolving around vehicles (hence vehicle centric), would be where the vehicles control the pace of the gameplay and where you cannot win without vehicles. This is vehicle centric. Vehicle centric is not having advantages available within vehicles as a whole. Not unless the advantages are so great they outweigh everything non vehicle.

To phrase it in some other terms true, You have 3 armors in Tribes, Light, Medium and heavy. Mediums are good at offense in many situations, and can be very good at defense. They are an asset that can fill certain roles better than a light or a heavy could. (Some roles lights and heavies fill better). Is the game medium centric? No. Would proper use of mediums in some maps give a team an advantage? Yes. Are mediums needed to win? No. The advantage only goes so far, and is only a small part of the overall game puzzle.

Vehicles will have, and should have advantages over the regular armors in certain areas. They'll also have their drawbacks in certain areas. There will be some maps where proper vehicle use will give a team an advantage, but overall it'll be a small part of the game when compared to everything else.

To use T2 as an example again..

T2 Classic Shrike when used correctly = Advantage, but not *the* major thing in the game. Is a small aspect to winning like any other individual position. Game does not center around the shrike.

T2 Base shrike when used correctly = Vehicle centric. Game centers completely around this vehicle and what it can do. Team with the shittiest vehicles loses in most cases.

Huge differences.

This is the definition of vehicle-centric that I would accept. I agree with zp on all points even though he is apparently a "spawn-killing newby". :)

Trew, while playing against most t2 classic teams you don't have to harrass their vpad all game in order to win. There are teams though that have players good enough with particular vehicles to force the nme team to put at least some focus on destroying vehicle assets. Imo, this is a good sign that vehicles are useful but not overpowered.

Here's my flying vehicle balance "fix": The Shocklance

When a vehicle is spinning around and upside down it becomes increasing difficult for it to shoot me.

As for ground vehicles, if they run you over they should receive damage from the collision. imo

Another point concerning UT vehicles is this: I think UT onslaught is too vehicle-centric compared to what a tribes title should be if the tribes title is attempting to be true to its roots.

Trew mentioned the object of attacking the nme vehicle pad. One reason that ut onslaught is too vehicle centric is that there are far too many locations to get a vehicle. It is nearly impossible for a team to completly suppress the nme team from getting a vehicle. This is not true in tribes of course. There is usually only one vehicle pad per map. Thus it is much much easier to destroy the other teams vehicle capability without wasting too many men on the endeavor. This is a balance point for tribes vehicles, and hopefully this will carry over into vengeance.

You gotta remember that there are no more vehicle pads. They will spawn like 2k4, but not in so many locations as far as CTF goes. So the only way to really stop an opposing team from using vehicles is to either take the gens down and stop the production of vehicles(if it's even linked to the gens), or keep continuous pressure on their vehicle spawn and pilots/drivers. Or maybe the dev teams plans a seperate way of taking down the pad. Either way, should be fun to see this new system. Especially the buggy spawn point.

Okay I think a starship class flying vehicle is essential for "StarSiege" Tribes. Perhaps 10 turrets or so and a nuke
j/k

You gotta remember that there are no more vehicle pads.

Really?!? eew. At what point do we just drop the "Tribes" and just start calling this "Vengeance?"

Well there are 'pads,' locations for the vehicles to spawn, but you no longer have to walk up to a station to 'buy' one.

You gotta remember that there are no more vehicle pads. They will spawn like 2k4, but not in so many locations as far as CTF goes. So the only way to really stop an opposing team from using vehicles is to either take the gens down and stop the production of vehicles(if it's even linked to the gens), or keep continuous pressure on their vehicle spawn and pilots/drivers. Or maybe the dev teams plans a seperate way of taking down the pad. Either way, should be fun to see this new system. Especially the buggy spawn point.


I hope there is definitely a way to "take down the pad." UT vehicles are a bit too powerfull imo, since no pad = constant vehicle threat

The only reason the shrikes weren't overpowered in the past tribes games was the fact that when you were in one there was basically nothing you could do but "Shrike Stuff".

Most of the time in tribes 1 and 2 if someone was in a shrike they probably weren't as immediate a threat as they are in UT2k4 where a vehicle can do much more than a human and do it better.

So vehicles are just gonna appear in set locations on a timer?

So vehicles are just gonna appear in set locations on a timer?


Hopefully not. I would like to see them bought, but if not, then at least make it so that destroying the gens and probably some other feature (pad?) keep them from spawning

So vehicles are just gonna appear in set locations on a timer?
Yes, no more buying. The vehicles will "just be there." Walk up, get it, drive off...

Hm, I just went over the screenshots, and came across the vehicle pad..

http://www.tribalwar.com/media/viewer.php?id=68

I thought, what if destroying those chains on the sides of the door were a way of disabling the pad from producing anymore vehicles?

Hm, I just went over the screenshots, and came across the vehicle pad..

http://www.tribalwar.com/media/viewer.php?id=68

I thought, what if destroying those chains on the sides of the door were a way of disabling the pad from producing anymore vehicles?

hopefully something like that at least. Grabbing from endless spawnpoints is nuub

two things

one: "a vehicle shouldn't offer any more maximum advantage(usefulness) than any other tool in particular situations suited for that tool"

two: "when in a shielded vehicle, pilots have an immediate health advantage in any situation"

two things

one: "a vehicle shouldn't offer any more maximum advantage(usefulness) than any other tool in particular situations suited for that tool"

two: "when in a shielded vehicle, pilots have an immediate health advantage in any situation"


Your first statement is somewhat vague, so I don't really know what you mean.

And your second is true, but I think you'll find that many people think that this is a good advantage to have from a vehicle. I think you'll find that most players don't want the vehicles nerfed in the way that you want to nerf them. They want them controlled by other elements like limited sources for buying vehicles, destroyable vehicle assests, equal opportunity for both teams to have vehicles on any given map, limits as to the number of vehicles on the field at one time, and weapons that are effective against vehicles and other large targets.

if you don't give them the immediate health advantage in the first place then there's no need to do all that extra stuff just to fix the unbalance.

Don't compare UT2k4 with T:V or any of the Tribes Brand products. I played it, it was fun for about 30 minutes, the vehicles are fun and all and they do provide a very needed aspect for the game type. However there in lies your difference, and the primary reason I lost interest in the game after 30 minutes.

In UT2k4, I'm running along link gun in hand headed to cap a relay, and blammo I see a scorpion coming head on at me, or any of the vehicles for that matter. I start strafing firing, doing what I can do get out of its way and or destroy it. If I don't, I die, simple as that.

In Tribes (at this point any of the Tribes products, and I assume T:V) I'm running along and blammo here comes a vehicle. The difference here is, I'm not stuck to the fucking ground. I can fly, and thus being run over isn't going to happen half as often if even a quarter as often.

In the 30 minutes I was playing UT2k4 (which I might add I keep going back and trying to find some kind of redeeming value.) everytime I'd spawn and find some vehicle bearing down on me, my immediate response was to jump like a mad man and try to jet away. Durrrrr on my part for forgetting I was playing a lame ass JetPackless game.

Lets talk about balancing the T:V vehicles, when we finally get a chance to test them out and stop comparing it to a game that really doesn't have any comparison eh'?

if you don't give them the immediate health advantage in the first place then there's no need to do all that extra stuff just to fix the unbalance.


I'd rather have the health advantages and the balances. Making things simple doesn't always make it more fun.

And I agree with you that neither does creating a bunch of superfluous elements. But I don't think the advantages or the balances that I mentioned and that have always been a part of tribes are superfluous. I do however think that your suggestions are oversimplifications that will result in completely useless vehicles. ex. Halo.

This thread was a good idea though, and I think some arguments for both sides have been presented. Now if only dev will see that I always consult ultimate reality before forming any of my opinions and that anyone who disagrees with me on any issue is obviously a misguided or deranged, T:V will be a great game :) :) :) :)

Personally I haven't found the vehicles in unreal to be that big a problem. One guy with an avrial can really mess them up. You can also use obstructions in the map as protection when one is comming after you. It is true though that someone caught out in the open is pretty much fucked.

One of the big thing I think you guys are missing about shrikes is they function very differently from ground players. First, they have to be moving at a good speed otherwise they go down fast. They also can't really engage a player in a "duel" like a LD can. What they do best is deal with moderatly fast moving players moving in predictable trajectories that they can see or locate on sensors well ahead of time. That's something that LD for the most part can't do well; sniping is somewhat of an exception but not against heavies which are a very big target for shrikes because they're even more predictable.

So in short, LD are able to more or less stay in place (or close by) and defend an area whereas shrikes cannot. Shrikes can deal with players moving quickly on predictable paths and catch all but fast cappers whereas LD largely cannot.