[T:V] Ball!!

did you ever play TR2?

obviously not if he is suggesting that shit.

On a side note, TR2 was very limited by the engine (especially the bugs with it). I am looking forward to what Mike puts into the new game.

with this new way of making gametypes im kinda wondering how they'll make the ball game "unique". KP said that they could combine the gametypes and both have ball and CTF in the same game basically. Like in TR2 you had a certain starting gear and positions based on where you were. I can't see how that would be possible in a combined CTF/Ball map. It sound to me as if it will just be Ball really. Maybe that's enough though :)

obviously not if he is suggesting that shit.


You two seem to be calling me out on something and not specifying. Please do so I an actually defend myself without a blind guess.

Ball = TR2 refined. And TR2 was alot of fun so thats good.

with this new way of making gametypes im kinda wondering how they'll make the ball game "unique". KP said that they could combine the gametypes and both have ball and CTF in the same game basically. Like in TR2 you had a certain starting gear and positions based on where you were. I can't see how that would be possible in a combined CTF/Ball map. It sound to me as if it will just be Ball really. Maybe that's enough though :)

This needs to be exlpained a bit.

They don't mean you're going to be playing 2 gametypes simultaneously, it's simply in the creation of the map that you're going to have the option to set which gametypes will be playable on that map.

In previous games, you've always had to make the maps, then to have them playable to more than one gametype would require a decent amount of modifying, depending on the gametype / gametype you're porting it from.

Theoretically, they've made it much easier to make missions more portable by being able to simply modify, at the creation level, of which gametypes will be supported by the mission.

A simple example would be, let's say Broadside, from T1. This was excellent duel terrain, in my opinion, yet it was a CTF mission by default. What they're saying is possible now, is simply at the creation time, you set the gametypes that you want, say duel / ctf, and on mission load, depending on if you wanted it to be loaded as a duel map or ctf map, it'll load the game objects pertaining to that specific gametype.

Actually no, they said you could play them simultaneously. At least as far as ball and CTF go. The point was it worked around the objects that were loaded.

seems like TR2, id guess it is going to be quite a bit (not exactly, but very very very very very close to TR2)

TR2 was fun, the guy who made TR2 made Ball... hmmm could they possibly be anything alike?

nah
The gameplay vid they showed featured a TR2 style game type it's just hard to see via the camera. I think we'll have that video up very soon.

Fine fuck you both (locke and slogg), I'll go in and just explain everything:

1) Tr2 was a hybrid of stlye passing in the original Team Rabbit, and then added goals to cash in the points.
2) There were no deaths in tr2, only knock downs.


For point number 1, I believe Ball will abandon forced passing style. I think the overall objective will be simple -- get the ball in the goal.

Point number 2, I believe that since the objective is to get the ball in the goal, the only things you need to worry about are a) who has the ball b) who could get the ball and c) your own goal

Taking a look at regular sports in real life, this is much of the focus as well. You go after the ball, cover people, and defend your goal: examples being soccar and hockey.
Tr2 had a knock down system, but really in most major sports you never just randomly knock someone down. You may juke them a litte (disc hit) but the only person who ever gets creamed should be the ball carrier. Football (american) is a great example of this. Also, in football you cover the passer. To prevent a score off a pass in football you either intercept the ball, or you take the reciever down after he gets it. Knocking down the passer before he touches it is called pass interference. In tr2 there was some interference even if not overly successful. I don't think there's a need to have such preventitive play actions as a possibility.


But I'm willing to aceppt my thoughts have their holes. I wouldn't say, "He must not know shit," and not actually say anything, b/c I'd rather be productive. So what problems are there?
First, the carrier can't shoot anyone. Based on the system I presented the person with the ball would have no one to shoot, making his only option running away. Possible solution: Allow the ball carrier to inflict damage on the enemy, meaning he'd be the only one that could knock them down.

However, the point of making the ball carrier the only target (and a fragile target at that) is to encourage the pass. I should have mentioned before, but it's much easier to dash to the goal and toss it in rather than passing. That was the main point of my fumble idea from before -- get the flag to a teammate b/c you won't be able to hold it for too long on your own.


The other problem I see happening is the discjump. Are we talking about an unlimited discjump now? Will the ball carrier even be able to discjump without fumbling? Would it actually be better that way? Maybe players need health for knockdowns if for nothing else but to factor in discjumps and hard landings (keeping it more as an idea of personal stamina).


So that's what I've got. I'm not thinking of ways that Tr3 will work, I'm thinking of how a game with a ball and two goals could be played in a tribes enviorment.

Maybe that sounds stupid to some of you but this thread is called [T:V]Ball, not "Sir Lucius doesn't know shit about tr2 what a faggot I hope he chokes on a dick."

Actually no, they said you could play them simultaneously. At least as far as ball and CTF go. The point was it worked around the objects that were loaded.

yep thats exactly my point. Let's say you want to play Ball w/o invs. As CTF plays with invs, what's going to happen if you combine the two? Is it even possible to make gametype rules like that?

yep thats exactly my point. Let's say you want to play Ball w/o invs. As CTF plays with invs, what's going to happen if you combine the two? Is it even possible to make gametype rules like that?
I'm sure the invs work just like the flagstand and ball goals. You could easily remove invs from CTF and make it pub. I doubt people are actually going to make a ball/CTF hybrid, it's just that it can be done. It'd be pretty stupid though. ;)

yep thats exactly my point. Let's say you want to play Ball w/o invs. As CTF plays with invs, what's going to happen if you combine the two? Is it even possible to make gametype rules like that?

I'm still convinced you guys are both wrong. Maybe thrax can clear this up?

I hope I am, tbh. I just heard KP say yesterday that you could enable both flags and the ball simultaniously. And I was kinda hoping they were doing something "special" with the Ball gametype.

The no inv thing was the first thing i thought of because of how TR2 works. Hardly a suggestion or anything, I'm just wondering how this new gametype thing is going to work.

I don't think he was actually suggesting that a CTF/Ball hybrid would be any fun. He was just using that as a hypothetical example to show how flexible the UGM was.

yep i got that part as well, but isnt the POSSIBILTY going to cause some conflicts? That's really where I'm getting at.

yep i got that part as well, but isnt the POSSIBILTY going to cause some conflicts? That's really where I'm getting at.


Let's think about what goes on when you add a game object.


First of all, base gameplay, no objects, is probably just spawning onto a team -- deathmatch. No winning condition, the game ends when the clock runs out. The gens, the invs, the vehicles -- they all remain the same.

Adding a flags adds the winning condition that if a flag is capped X ammount of times the game is over.

Adding a ball means that scoring X ammount of times will win the game.

Thus you'd have 3 ending conditions now: 1) time running out 2) capping out 3) scoring out off the ball.

What is this? It's a unique gametype. However, you may also be able to set objects to built in gametypes (like CTF and Ball) so the flags only appear in ctf and the ball and goals are hidden. Likewise if you load up ball, the flags are hidden, and in addition you could probably set the gens to only appear during CTF, so those assets would NOT appear during ball. They did something like this in the video, where the center platform only appeared in the Ball gametype.

Then there may be global modifyers you place to only appear in certin gametype, like how you spawn, what you spawn with, etc.

Ah that makes sense actually lucius. Thanks for clearing that up.

Actually no, they said you could play them simultaneously. At least as far as ball and CTF go. The point was it worked around the objects that were loaded.

I'm not sure what was said because I missed the video. What I do know is that TR2 uses different physics/skills than T2 classic, what that meant is players had to adjust from one to the other. Most people decided that playing TR2 was bad for them because it fuxor'd their classic skills.

Maybe what is being said is that skills used in T:V Ball will also be used in CTF. Oooh, maybe they'll have beacon stopping in ctf now!!

But like I said I missed all the videos, so I may be way off topic.

:lol: i am amused that you felt the need to write a novel since i didn't reply (while i slept).

Anyway.. i am in a hurry so i will make this short. If you can only knock down the guy with the ball.. you will have no way to stop his teammates going downfield to catch a pass. Yes, you can intercept it, but doing so is 100x more difficult in tribes than being a CB in football because of 1> speed is based off skiing 2> positional awareness in a video game is rather limited compared to real life. Further, what is the point of your teammates? If the team with the ball can't kill defenders, or keep them from getting to your ball carrier, there is 0 reason for them to be on the field. If you can't kill a defender (team w/o the ball), then the only way to successfully move the ball is for the ball carrier to ski past the defender, or pass the ball. In other words, there is no way to clear the road for the ball carrier, making the game very 1 sided.

Interesting that you got that out of the post, Sambuca. ;) What we were talking about is that KP said you could, literally at the same time, have a CTF game and a ball game going on. He only said it to exemplify how there is no longer such a thing as a "CTF map." It may be a map geared towards CTF, but it could be used for Ball, Arena, or whatever on the fly. It all depends on what objects are loaded; and if you are the masochistic type, you could merge the two together since it is possible. I doubt it would make for a good game though.

Here's how I imagined the gametypes:

1) Go to level editor and open a map
2) Place items like invs, flags, and balls as necessary
3) Save new map
4) People download the scoring conditions from the server, because scoring conditions will be standardized



I hope there's a capture-and-hold maptype involving multiple balls, instead of multiple positions.