Conference Thoughts/Comments.

I care about skiing because its the primary aspect of a tribes game that makes tribes what it is. It's appropriate to comment on it no matter what stage the game is at.Certainly it's key to get this (and a few other items) spot on perfect. But you shouldn't worry about it being super easy to ski really really fast. That was KP. If I'd been doing that demo it would have taken at least 25% longer, because I'm at least that much slower than KP in TV. TV is much harder to go fast in for me than either T1 or Classic. I'm not a bad player (not great, but I can play), so while any issues you have won't (shouldn't) be fully put to rest until after you play the game, I hope I can help you rest a it easier on this issue.

The one major thing that irked me was the movement in midair without jet power. ... move according to free will without expending Energy ... Think how difficult it will be to CG a player from the air if the can move "willy nilly" through the sky.1. Who said it didn't take suit energy? We only said you don't have to press the right mouse button.

2. It's also tied to your speed. The faster you go, the less the effect. Think of it as low speed maneuvering jets.

Certainly it's key to get this (and a few other items) spot on perfect. But you shouldn't worry about it being super easy to ski really really fast. That was KP. If I'd been doing that demo it would have taken at least 25% longer, because I'm at least that much slower than KP in TV. TV is much harder to go fast in for me than either T1 or Classic. I'm not a bad player (not great, but I can play), so while any issues you have won't (shouldn't) be fully put to rest until after you play the game, I hope I can help you rest a it easier on this issue.

So does that mean that the ski-skill gap is even more exagerated in Vengeance than in the previous products? Or to phrase the question another way, your response makes it sound as if the way skiing is currently implemented gives skilled skiiers and even greater advantage over the uninitiated than previously. Is that the case?

No Starwolf or Diamond Sword?

:|

If they're not in the SP, will they be in multi at least?

As many said before me, its not beta yet.

But what many people have not said, is, there done with single player and are tweaking multiplayer. Something like skiing which predominatly takes place in multiplayer, although apparent in singleplayer will be worked on extensively as far as, is this good now, etc.

plus, im sure irrational will listen to us during beta when we say its like jello in the air (if we do) *crosses finger*

- only 4 packs (sigh)

WHAT!? Oh man.. lemme guess-

Shield, Energy, Ammo, and Repair?

Damnit.. Satchels and Cloaks are gone?

Rest of game better make up for it..

Man, those maps were awesome. Especially the underground one, that was jawdropping. The game looks really nice by now and the gametype system is really gonna make the game worth it for mappers. Plus if TribesED is anyway near as fantastic as UnrealED, we're gonna see some neat stuff.

I'm kinda worried about them taking out the whole sensor system and CC. The team I played for used that all the time, a lot of people don't apreciate the advantage in putting up a few pulse sensors before the first wave of attackers arrive. Also just the fact than when chasing I often zoom in on the capper to reveal him to my team. I allways thought that was kinda nifty. Maybe it wont mean as much if the players themselves are easier to spot and the maps are more detailed.

Making it less complicated for new players is a good thing tho, it just sucks if Irrational has to sacrifice cool elements of the game.

They have a deployable station in the concept art.

...

This entire build was "neutered". It didn't have packs or some of the weapons.

Ah.. so they could still have more than the standard four packs?

I think removing the CC is a big mistake. Plus the radar looks really small, which could be really a problem to coordinate offense.
A map that shows up in the corner of the screen but still allows you to play, like in RtCW:Ennemy Territory, would be better.

Yeah the lack of a fully detailed CC was sad. Im still not convinced on the idea of only having 4 packs. ... I prefer having alot of options in terms of packs and deployables.

Ah.. damnit! I KNEW IT!

Game's ruined. :p

Hehe, no but seriously- you gotta get cloak or satchel in there... I loved those two.. they had their moments.

And I second the whole CC thing- I used that too. I can't wait to see what they come up with though..

nope, there were no packs in the vid at all. KP said that they werent going to have more than 4. I think thats a pretty cool change to be honest, many of the packs in Tribes one and two were practically useless. KISS.

Having less packs may simplify things.. but having the other packs didn't really complicate matters to begin with. It's not like they were complicated to use...

Yeah, you didn't have everyone runniing out with a satchel pack, or a cloaking pack.. but they still had valid uses. I remember whenever a defense was holed up tight.. turrets and motion sensors everywhere- my last resort was always flying in there with a satchel charge and getting the f-- anyway I could out with only a sliver of health left many a times.

It felt good clicking the button and whispering "sayonara motherf---rs" and clearing out the way for the offense to rush through. Gotta keep hope though- maybe it'll be an accessory or secondary issue item... yeah.

I think the teams I've played for has used the cloak pack once. And that was basically to humiliate the other team. The satchel was never used iirc, the ammo pack only occasionally. We did find some uses for the sensor jammer pack, but w/o a sensor net that is pretty much obsolete by now. Thats down to Energy, Repair and Shield then. Only 3 packs that are widely used, I can't see why 4 is a step down.

I don't know, I just think its a bad idea to add stuff that's gonna be used so rarely. Again KISS.

Tribes is also very slow (very very slow) when you are on the ground running. If you don't know how to ski yet, it's much slower than Quake or Unreal. Even after your learn to ski, it's still slow when you're indoors in comparison to those games.

Another way to look at is that Quake and Unreal are "QUICK", while Tribes is "FAST". Some of the things that KP talked about address this and make Tribes "Quicker" while still being "Fast". It's just a different perspective. If you step back you can see that both "camps" are right. Tribes is slow, and fast.

That's a great description. This is not the best analogy, but it's an easy one to explain.. In hockey, you can be a fast player, and a quick player. A fast player is one who can skate with speed, and one who (in full stride) will blow past others. A quick player is one can jump past you from a dead stop, and they catch you by surprise. Quick players are the hardest to hit, because you get them in your sights, and they manage to evade.

I think that was one of Tribes' biggest faults. It simply wasn't a quick game. If you're standing still when a shot is fired, you're probably going to get hit, no matter how good you are. That's why the best players were always moving, and in my opinion the primary reason outdoor maps were favored. Your best bet was the shield pack, because you just were not going to evade a well-placed shot, not without some kind of obstacle to shield you.

-I love Julia's runspeed

-I love the "feel" I saw in the heavy

-I love the maps

-I love the buildings

-I loved KP's sking on that last map.

WHAT!? Oh man.. lemme guess-

Shield, Energy, Ammo, and Repair?

Damnit.. Satchels and Cloaks are gone?

Rest of game better make up for it..

This is just my opinion, but it's too early to assume that losing the satchel and cloaking pack will in any way take something from the game. First off, let's remember there was no cloaking pack or satchel in Tribes, and in no way did the game suffer because of it. If you consider the story, T:V takes place before Tribes and Tribes 2, correct? So perhaps the technology is something you need to consider. Sometimes simplicity is the best approach. Will it be used? Will it be used enough to make it a necessary addition?

I under stand your plight but I disagree. It is cheap! It's so fucking cheap that everyone is doing it! With interplote and the dime a dozen snipers in t2 now youy're lucky to get TO the flag stand without getting lazed to shit. Even on a FAST route if you make with half health you can expect a good hearty mine disk or two ... or three.

Granted to speak of pubs on the most part. If you have no Offense you're just gone. Plain and simple. In competition it's more viable for sure though.

Again, this is just my opinion, but it depends on which game you're talking about.

I never played Tribes 2 at a high level, but I played Tribes about the highest you can go.. Mine-discing was not only not cheap it was necessary. Now, I can't speak for T2 or T:V, but if Tribes had been without mine-discing, the game would have been horribly unbalanced in favor of offense, and there are many people who already think offense is unbalanced.

Light D had very few options without mine-discing. There were options, of course, such as body-blocking, sniping the incoming, sniping the outgoing, and chasing, but the skill level was disproportionate. In other words, if a fairly skilled capper came in for 10 grabs, you would probably need to be an overall better player than he would to even stop him 50% of the time without a mine-disc. One of things you learn in Tribes at the high levels is that if a capper gets the flag off your stand with speed, what options you have rapidly diminish.

Keep in mind, I'm only talking about cappers. If you were to throw in heavy offense into the mix, you would be overwhelmed rather quickly without mine-discs. As it is, offense will usually (9 times out of 10) win out against defense in a game, and this is with mine-discs to aid you. In Tribes, the best way to keep your base up is to get your opponent's base down.

where's the rabbit?


the teaaaaaaaaam rabbit


Gallium
Ball

Again, this is just my opinion, but it depends on which game you're talking about.

I never played Tribes 2 at a high level, but I played Tribes about the highest you can go.. Mine-discing was not only not cheap it was necessary. Now, I can't speak for T2 or T:V, but if Tribes had been without mine-discing, the game would have been horribly unbalanced in favor of offense, and there are many people who already think offense is unbalanced.

Light D had very few options without mine-discing. There were options, of course, such as body-blocking, sniping the incoming, sniping the outgoing, and chasing, but the skill level was disproportionate. In other words, if a fairly skilled capper came in for 10 grabs, you would probably need to be an overall better player than he would to even stop him 50% of the time without a mine-disc. One of things you learn in Tribes at the high levels is that if a capper gets the flag off your stand with speed, what options you have rapidly diminish.

Keep in mind, I'm only talking about cappers. If you were to throw in heavy offense into the mix, you would be overwhelmed rather quickly without mine-discs. As it is, offense will usually (9 times out of 10) win out against defense in a game, and this is with mine-discs to aid you. In Tribes, the best way to keep your base up is to get your opponent's base down.The same can be said about T2 Classic, without any edits. The main difference between T1 and T2C to me is map size, and adding 4 players in T2 clears that up and makes it harder to notice.

Anytime you have really fast HO, which most all of us want, the mine-disk is very helpful.

T2 Classic and T1 had fast HO and thus there is the mine-disk.

Sojourn = win