[T:V] The answer to cheats

Apparently I have to continue.

I'll address your rebuttal point-by-meaningless-point later, unless someone else chooses to undertake the task before I get around to it.

Good day.

Eventually cheaters get caught. Crafty loader or no.

T:V cheaters will be fined the cost of one copy of the game when we globally ban their unique ID and they have to buy another copy of the game to continue playing.
^ thrax already owned this thread on page 3... give it a rest.
having said that.. my last comment on this:
I say hire punkbuster.. i've never had any problems with it in the past, and it works great. Coupled with the ID ban, I think t:v will end up having a lot less cheating than most games out there.
If there's no $$ for PB, then maybe implement something similar (simpler/cheaper?), because all it takes is one violation to get your ass owned.. then you gotta buy a new copy of the game.
one strike, you're out... not 12892387634th strike, you're still playing.(ala CS, and every other game out there currently.)

Punkbuster is really good. I played americas army before it had punkbuster put in, fucking aimbots everywhere and shit. NOw that they have punkbuster cheats are reduced like 90 percent

I doubt it. It's just a tad bit rediculous to ban someone based on unprovable criteria.

When you pay money for something, you shouldn't have to worry about some dipshit company banning you from playing, based on something they cannot prove in the least.

You guys just need to shut the fuck up and let the DEV worry about this shit. You play no active role in determining what happens, and most of the time you guys just look like fuckin idiots tryin to be smart... just shut the fuck up already.

Uhh, you sir are an idiot. The Dev's pay close attention to this forum, and although a lot of the ideas around here get passed off as: "we've thought of it and there is no fucking way." or "were you dropped on your head as a child?" Quite a few of the ideas that have passed around here as of late have been met by the Dev's with some enthusiasm, and thus show's some sort of support in the ideas that we as the community are throwing at them. Sierra and Irrational are not stupid, they realize that we as the community are their target audience and unlike Dave G. actually give a rat's ass what we think because god damnit we're the people who are going to bitch the loudest when something is fucked up. So shut your god damned pie hole and stay off this forum if you don't have something worthwhile to contribute...


Thank you and have a nice day.

Demo system - good
Unique ID - good

Those two things alone will help deter cheating in matches a lot. Especially while T:V is priced over $30+.

Cheat detection that allows cheaters to hang themselves (via ban) over just blocking them is priceless.

Thrax, In what ways will justify cheating? Looking at server side demos, punkpuster, etc. I think this is a very good idea, or at least a step in the right direction. Things like suing the makers of cheats for lost revenue is another approach that could be taken.

With that being said, im concerned with what could happen if someone who isn't cheating, gets banned and has to buy another game because of this.

Im sure you have your ways of finding cheaters and im looking forward to it. Thanks for not being like recent DEV's and just release a game only to be a hack fast within days and not doing anything about it.

Banning a cheaters game forever isn't "NEW". It's been going on for a while now, other games on the market use unique ID's based on CD-Keys and cheaters who are caught are banned. In these instances, there is a place where people who have been banned can complain. What I've seen is if there's some kind of bug where innocent people are getting banned, the truth comes out and these people are quickly restored. But real cheaters never are. You cheat, you pay. Simple enough equation.

It's not about making it so that no cheat can't ever be developed. That's impossible. Someone will always find a way to hack anything. The point, though, is that people with these skills are few and far between. You may have 10 guys out of 1000 cheating. That's better than 900 out the 1000 cheating.

The goal is to make it so when 1 tard developes a cheat, he must KEEP IT TO HIMSELF and can't distribute it for fear of being banned and his cheat being broken. That's done with a company like PB who are involved in the community always looking for cheats and taking in cheat code from other players to dissect. As soon as a cheat is released to the public, PB has it and it's then dead and patched away and the people using it are caught. It cuts down on cheating a lot to do it this way.

Like someone already said, something like Punkbuster makes it TOO MUCH WORK to hack and cheat. If a company like PB takes every single public cheat they can get and blacklists it, and stays on the community, a hacker must always either keep it to himself (ideal) or update his code every single week, always hacking. In otherwords, not playing the game. I can live with that. Put the cheating hacker morons into a little box where they spend all their time 'making cheats' and never get a real chance to use their cheats on the actual people with skills just trying to play.

And it continues.

Are you really this ignorant to cheats and the hacking culture Trew_Soulja?
Actually, he's dead on the money. So maybe you're the ignorant one?

Keep something else in mind: The 'hacking culture' has been hacked.

There is no more reward for cheating hackers. No public fame. No thrill of ruining a game for others. You release your hack to others be prepared to get banned, buy a new game, and re-develop your hack all over again. Cool huh?

So what you're saying is you're going to deny someone the right to play a game they bought, based on what criteria? How exactly are you going to prove anyone did anything to begin with? Word of mouth? Oh... there ya go. Good idea.

Wait, no, that's about the lamest shit I've read all year long, and this is the end of the year and that's coming from a DEV...My first criteria is name. For instnace if your name were NoFix then you would be guilty.


:kiss:

Leave the bans to the server admins, the ladder admins, and the community itsef.Actually we agree with that. For instance, if we were to use Punkbusters they will ban people based on their criteria, we don't. The community also creates ban lists. Server admins can choose to use ban lists or not, and also to run punkbusters or not.

The long and the short of it is that there will be cheats. Those cheaters will get caught. Most of them will respond with "My little brother was playing on my machine". They will be added to a ban list.

The end result is basically the same.

For more info on the punkbuster admin community check out this site: http://www.punksbusted.com/

Yay for Punkbuster!! :)

Nice job picking the best post to respond to :)

Unfortunately I don't cheat.

These threads always crack me up because it's easy to see who actually wants to cheat, and who wants to play fair.

You get the people whining about it being to hard to catch cheaters, and making excuses about how hard it will be and how it won't work. These guys give absolutely no suggestions and turn a blind eye to the counter arguments. You're only making it blatantly obvious where your priorities are.

The rest of us who play fair and don't cheat are all for as many cheat preventions you can throw at us. Why? Because we don't cheat. End.

accidents do happen, and I think its fair to give the people who've cheated once the benifit of the doubt. Disabling their CD-KEY is a quite harsh action.We're watching you :p

This will be the one and only time I will ever agree with NoFix.

Ever.

Let me see if I can bring this to a nice peaceful close.

1. Screen shots do work. They don't work for every type of cheat (auto aim for instance) but they do work. Crafty cheaters can get around them, but frequent updates by the PB team can make this at least highly annoying to the cheaters, if not eventually trip them up.

2. The only way to not get caught cheating is to be a very good programmer who has no interest in sharing. Even if you only share a cheat with your team, it will get out, and once it's into the community it's easy enough to prevent it. It's like a computer virus - once it's in the wild it only has a short life span before it's found and prevention is applied. Cheaters can then make new versions of it, but they're easier to spot and prevent, start viscous cycle, where cheaters don't get a second chance.

3. There are always stupid people. People who cheat at LAN's, people who brag on IRC, etc, or even release movies with cheats enabled during the filming (!) ... Given enough beer your average college student will do something stupid. For this we are all thankful.

4. Even with no cheat protection T1 cheaters were found.

So, will it be perfect? No, obviously not. Will cheaters get nailed? Yes, absolutely. Will some cheaters go free? probably, but I doubt their numbers will be high.

As for the comments about customer service... I think that preventing cheating is great customer service. I think that not banning people who are obviously cheating is customer disservice.

Let me see if I can bring this to a nice peaceful close.

1. Screen shots do work. They don't work for every type of cheat (auto aim for instance) but they do work. Crafty cheaters can get around them, but frequent updates by the PB team can make this at least highly annoying to the cheaters, if not eventually trip them up.

2. The only way to not get caught cheating is to be a very good programmer who has no interest in sharing. Even if you only share a cheat with your team, it will get out, and once it's into the community it's easy enough to prevent it. It's like a computer virus - once it's in the wild it only has a short life span before it's found and prevention is applied. Cheaters can then make new versions of it, but they're easier to spot and prevent, start viscous cycle, where cheaters don't get a second chance.

3. There are always stupid people. People who cheat at LAN's, people who brag on IRC, etc, or even release movies with cheats enabled during the filming (!) ... Given enough beer your average college student will do something stupid. For this we are all thankful.

4. Even with no cheat protection T1 cheaters were found.

So, will it be perfect? No, obviously not. Will cheaters get nailed? Yes, absolutely. Will some cheaters go free? probably, but I doubt their numbers will be high.

As for the comments about customer service... I think that preventing cheating is great customer service. I think that not banning people who are obviously cheating is customer disservice.

4. Really? I'd like some evidence of this. What you meant to say was that T1 had many players that liked to call other people cheaters. Next.

3. So someone spreads a rumour that imacheater cheats. Enough evidence to ban someone? Not quite.

2. This is true.

1. Screenshots work? If anything, it'd help weed out the idiots. Depending on the method, it'd be pretty easy to get around.

SG, don't be a fag. Shit, wait, is that even possible?

I don't know. Hack the gibson and find out.

the way the war3 implementation works is theres dormant memory scan that gets triggered several weeks into the patch or when the cheats have become rampant. theres really no way the cheat makers can detect this until it gets triggered and then its too late.

blizzard wins :)

but theres a way around this by implementing the cheat loader as a system driver

4. Really? I'd like some evidence of this. What you meant to say was that T1 had many players that liked to call other people cheaters. Next.

3. So someone spreads a rumour that imacheater cheats. Enough evidence to ban someone? Not quite.

2. This is true.

1. Screenshots work? If anything, it'd help weed out the idiots. Depending on the method, it'd be pretty easy to get around.Settle down and read my post again. It's easy to poke holes in just about anything if you're going to be pedantic about it. Read the meaning, and don't search for exceptions.

4. Really. Cheaters were found. I didn't say ALL nor did I mean all. If you don't think that any cheaters were found in T1 you're fooling yourself.

3. I didn't say that, did I? In fact my point didn't have anything to do with rumor, did it? If you're going to argue point for point, try to actually use the point you're supposedly arguing about.

1. The idiots do need weeding out, and if method A is easier than method B then I endorse method A. There is nothing wrong with finding some cheaters the easy way.

Now, please stop and think calmly, that's calmly before returning fire. I stand by every item in my previous post, and I don't believe that any of them can be rationally disputed. Certainly you can misrepresent parts of them and argue that way, but that's not what we're after here, is it?