Tribes Competition Needs "Game Films"

Teams need to be able to study game films from tribes matches. It would help to create heightened competition just as it does in many spectator sports.

Right now a team can create demos and see what they have done wrong, which is fundamental at this point. But Irrational needs to expand this so that teams can see how their opponents beat them to some degree. Teams should be able to study their opponents' formations and strategies in some measure greater than is now possible. In other words, take the ineffectual camera object out of the game and reinvent it along with a more effective and spectator sport freindly observer mode so that tribes competition is played "in the light."

Some pros and possible features:

-Combat cheating through heightened public exposure.
-Encourage competition based upon potentially immediate, mutual and intimate knowlege of opponents and their habits, styles and abilities.
-Incorporate Community Tribes technologies such as shoutcasting and Tribes Television.
-Allow observers and/or coaches to browse statistics in real time.
-Allow broadcasters to display statistics in real time.

Cons:

-You come up with the cons. There are plenty.

This would be 10x better if there was a server JUST for watching the match, separately of course, as to not to hamper the ping of the players. Dunno if it's possible, but...hell why not :)

Serverside demos are already planned and should accomplish the film part. Don't remember seeing any mention of the type of statistics they will try and keep though :-/

Have you heard of Half-Life TV (HLTV)?

One demo (can then flip to all players FPV)
Top down (positions of all team members of both sides)
and even picture in a picture (so you can see both)
There is something like 5 view modes, with a number
of variables you can set.

Have you heard of Half-Life TV (HLTV)?

One demo (can then flip to all players FPV)
Top down (positions of all team members of both sides)
and even picture in a picture (so you can see both)
There is something like 5 view modes, with a number
of variables you can set.

im pretty sure this is the whole point of the server side demos they are going to have.

You can do something like this now with a server-side mod.

the problem is, many top teams don't like their matches broadcast for fear of giving away strats.


(ie, they don't want people to see them using happymod)

Actually they don't want to give away routes (cap routes in particular), spam positions, regroup points, etc..

Yeah I tend to agree that being able to see what a team is doing, in detail, would not be a good thing for competition. Say, you're a top team with amazingly practice routines and you have the whole strategy for each map down to a "T", and some noob team jumps on the ladder, watches all your videos and copies all your hard work. What fun is that?

thing is you can't copy aim, you can't copy the EXACT route, and you certainly won't be as adaptable as someone who really does practice all round strats on multiple routes. it takes away some of the mystery of the best teams true, but it's great for competition as well. knowing someone knows the same things you do makes for much more cutthroat competitive play, as well as easier judging.

What I would recommend to the devs is that they code in a split in the server-side demos, so that there is demo of each team. This way ladders could eventually incorperate admin mods that would send the right demo to the right team, and you could review your teams side but not the others.

As long as it's configurable through an ingame menu, the teams in question can decide whether they want to allow demoing thise way or not. At the start of T2 I think people were pretty protective, but by now most teams are pretty open. I'd expect the same in T:V but of course "its a different game" so who knows.

the problem is, many top teams don't like their matches broadcast for fear of giving away strats.
Why can't make demos have passwords? Competition matches have passwords, don't they? All you need to do is add the password to the demo so only those can see it who have been playing it.

having some teams strat usually doesnt mean shit, it's the execution that takes more work. For example i have watched loads of warcraft3 replays, but i still get my ass kicked if i follow some top players cheesy strategy :)

The primary objection is as expected: Teams don't want people seeing what they're doing.

This is understandable, but I also believe that this is stunting the growth of tribes competition for both competitive and public consumption.

I agree with DaTimsta and Bloodbath that while you can see what other teams and playes are doing, whether or not you execute well or poorly like them is entirely up to the effort you put into your game.

Additionally, true competition arises out of an intimate familiarity with your opponent. When you know what he is capable of doing, and he knows what you're capable of doing, then a chess match begins as to how you can outwhit, or perhaps straight up overpower your opponent. Needless to say, Game Films and the their impact have not stifled competition in professional sports. ;)

Tribes is not like any other game or sport, so how Game Films would be adapted to Tribes Competition would need to be sensitive to how the game is played. But, I would encourage an exploration into this aspect of competitive gaming, and there are things as a player that I would be willing to see "reinvented" in order to accomodate game films, the ability to study the game in greater detail, and the ability to enjoy the game more dynamically as a spectator when I'm not playing.

I think a technology like this would tighten competition up. Meaning, it would bring the gap between the top team and the lower teams closer together.

Personally, i think this should make the game more exciting for everyone, from the players to the specators to the casters.

Every other competitive FPS releases their demos. If you want
increased interest and competition in T:V, then I suggest releasing
the damn things. Plus, some ladders/leagues may force demo release to
inhibit cheating.

Awesome ideas man. :) I agree 100% and think that these new types of demos would drastically help the game.

the problem is, many top teams don't like their matches broadcast for fear of giving away strats.


(ie, they don't want people to see them using happymod)

That's not true. I've only encountered one lame-ass team that didn't want their match casted. They suck anyways, so who cares?

Most team are happy to have their matches broadcast.

DooM!']Actually they don't want to give away routes (cap routes in particular), spam positions, regroup points, etc..

yeah, i know. I also don't agree with it. Learn to adapt. There is more to the game than spamming and routes.