T:V: class on classes

http://community.vugames.com/WebX?14@83.xaH5cVmTht4.12 06991@.eff0538

Tribes: Vengeance should have more classes and deployables to reflect what Tribes is all about.

what do you think tribes is about?

yes plz make it more like renegaydes

How about no and you can MOD it if you really need 31761247647 thousand deploables and armors.
someone post that for me.

id like it if...

... folks were more tolerant about tribes representing a whole range of gameplay instead of demanding that only THEIR style be accepted.

lexor, you get points for being like a religious misisonary on this issue... :)

personally, i dont think making 50 classes is really in line with mainstream online gaming... but hey... there's obviously room for modding.

What the hell are classes in tribes anyways?

They just give you the armor and the equipment, then it's up to you to do whatever the hell you want with them. It's like lego.

You want TFC with a jetpack?

I just found out that there was an official T3 forum. And that this isn't it :o.

So we want to add more complexity to a game the average gamer already has trouble picking up?

If you think Tribes is all about armor classes and deployables, you're quite mistaken.

what do you think tribes is about?

precisely. Yogi summed it up pretty well.

OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate then.

You pull up a server list in either game's heyday and there were MORE people playing a renegades or shifter or some other derivative than base.

Leet skill and all, purists and "base" players are definitely a minority IMHO. Even Classis is disdained by T2 base players because it's a mod, yet it's more popular than base.

Everyone's a MOD snob. Either you snob all MODs, you snob non-MODs, or if you're like me, you snob some MODs and not others. My wife and I used to rag on our son for playing Ultra-Renegades in T1, but we played Insomniax.

So, what seperates base play from MOD play? And lets talk general, since none of us know specifically how TV will play out yet.

Base players are a minority if you combine all non base players (T1). And, as you pointed out, every mod player isn't gonna like every mod.

But that aside, a buncha classes and deployables isn't tribes, it's tfc.

OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate then.

You pull up a server list in either game's heyday and there were MORE people playing a renegades or shifter or some other derivative than base.

Leet skill and all, purists and "base" players are definitely a minority IMHO. Even Classis is disdained by T2 base players because it's a mod, yet it's more popular than base.

Everyone's a MOD snob. Either you snob all MODs, you snob non-MODs, or if you're like me, you snob some MODs and not others. My wife and I used to rag on our son for playing Ultra-Renegades in T1, but we played Insomniax.

So, what seperates base play from MOD play? And lets talk general, since none of us know specifically how TV will play out yet.

Renegades=gimmicky
Base=pure gameplay, more individual skill

Renegades is a lot like T2 IMO. There is a lot of useless stuff there to draw newbies in but its a little shallow. I started as a ren player, but eventually moved on to base when I saw all the glaring imbalances in certain things (deployable force fields? cmon)

Ren served as a good stepping stone for newbs to get into the gameplay, but since T:V has single player its unessecary.

Renegades=gimmicky
Base=pure gameplay, more individual skill

Renegades is a lot like T2 IMO. There is a lot of useless stuff there to draw newbies in but its a little shallow. I started as a ren player, but eventually moved on to base when I saw all the glaring imbalances in certain things (deployable force fields? cmon)

Ren served as a good stepping stone for newbs to get into the gameplay, but since T:V has single player its unessecary.

pretty much my story too. I played on [KW] Renegades for about two months just newbing and having fun, then I tried base and got my butt kicked so bad I had to get good at it -- been a base addict ever since.

Mods in T1 aren't like mods in T2 either. For some reason I could move from ren to base to insomniax and still feel like I was playing "tribes". In T2 if I get in a ren server I felt like I was playing a totally different game.

Marweas does have a point about mod popularity though. I have a friend who is a good base player but played shifter comp in T1. The shifter league was very active and strong while the base ladders were shrinking and hardcore players were leaving.

So, what seperates base play from MOD play? And lets talk general, since none of us know specifically how TV will play out yet.

Base is balanced, mods are not. Which is why Classic could be considered base had it been the first rendition. Renegades, RevMod, Ultra Ren, InsomniaX... They are full of bloat and useless toys for people who don't want to experience what Tribes is REALLY about: freedom of movement.

Insomniax was missing freedom of movement? I'd have to disagree. :)

Let me ask my question another way. Nobody would ever voluntarily select a "base" model car. Everyone wants extra bells and whistles. Except race car drivers. They drive cars that are totally stripped down to the bare essentials.

Given that we intend Tribes to be used by competitive players and mass market shooter fans alike, how many bells and whistles does the game need?

Insomniax was missing freedom of movement? I'd have to disagree. :)

Let me ask my question another way. Nobody would ever voluntarily select a "base" model car. Everyone wants extra bells and whistles. Except race car drivers. They drive cars that are totally stripped down to the bare essentials.

Given that we intend Tribes to be used by competitive players and mass market shooter fans alike, how many bells and whistles does the game need?


Ok, but the MANUFACTURER offers a base car and the CLIENT decides what bells and whistles. If the manufacturer offered the base car as the car with all the bells and whistles, those of us who either can't afford them or don't need the heated leather captain's chair would be upset.

Why am I even arguing this, I've had this discussion with you hundreds of times. I'm going to bed.

Marweas, what was your son's handle in UR in T1?

Sad, I know, but I played when FSB-AO was but a wee UR player.

If I was to put myself in a catagory, I would be a person who snobs some mods, but valued other mods highly, but still recognised the need for base. No purist eitherway but a nice even split down the middle.

Now without getting into a huge rant of base v mods, I believe, as someone who has played both, has played more compedative games in mods then base, that you need a simple game format out of the box. Not only to save on accentuating the learning curve further, but to also provide a balanced foundation for mods to be built upon. It is from playing a balanced good quality simple game format that you get the best mod ideas to spawn from. Mods will always occur (and the modders will be happy doing so), trying to compete with them for bells and whistles can have you chasing your tail. Focusing on quality not quantity, and good mods will follow along with a happy base community.

On another note, if T:V came out with 7 armour classes, 10 grenade types and 11 kinds of turrets the first thing which is going to happen is the base being abandoned by much of the faithful to a T1/T2 like format. If its still a simple format, which is highly balanced, any changes you make will be kept (you could change just about everything I would suspect), and the direction of the franchise is there to be directed. If it is unbalanced and needlessly bell's and whistled, then you loose the direction you could have had on the franchise, as the modders will make mods to do their own thing, and the base players will make a t1/t2/classic like mod to play; leaving only people who bought the game only to probably dump it 3 months later playing the new "base".