TV and the unreal engine

C

cAn

Veteran X
The unreal engine looks good and it runs better then T2 does on current hardware. T:V is still a year and a half away so why wouldn't the developers of T:V aim so that relatively high end systems today are what the game will require when it comes out. In all honesty UT2003 runs amazingly well with full details @1024x768 on a system with 512mb ddr, athlonxp1600+ and a radeon 8500. Those are fairly low end specs.

The grass in that screenshot that was released was 'ok' but it isn't nearly as good as i would think grass should look in a year and a half.
Why not make grass that looks similar to the grass in the movie 'Shrek'? I'm sure current top of the line hardware(3ghz p4 w/ R9800Pro) could handle that in some form. 3dmark2001 has that one demo with the flowing grass, it looks great and runs great.

With current hardware, the slowest that the r9800pro gets is 59fps and that is @ 1600X1200 with "4X AA/8X Qual Aniso"
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1794&p=7

I saw a while ago that someone(maybe thrax when he was talking on Tribes3.org) said that they were planning on TNTG having top of the line graphics when it comes out. I know that the screenshot released is a very early screenshot and the final product will probably look considerably better then that, but as it is now, the graphics are only 'on par' with today's standards.

If you made a game that ran @ 60fps @ 1024x768 with today's best hardware, in a year and a half, that hardware would be about average for most systems.
 
Engines today can handle shit real well -- they're just capped in a few areas.

By the time t3 is out they'll probably have higher poly models, higher res skins, bump maps, refelction maps, pixel shaders, realistic shadows, and ragdoll physics that are going to make your jaw drop when you land an MA.

Yes, doom3 is gonna look really pretty and everything, but it's an indoor game with limited enemies. T:V is 10-16 players in open ended evniorments with lush forests, high draw distances and detailed terrain.

I'm pretty sure they'll be pushing the limits quite a bit for the type of game they want to create.
 
Looks like you answered your own question. :p
the Unreal engine is a constant work in progress and the one the Irrational team is using is the latest build. They are also adding in normal mapping dynamic lighting a la Doom 3. :eek:
Don't be fooled by early screenshots.
 
the point that i was trying to make is that they shouldn't make a game on an engine that plays well on current low end systems. They should aim high so that current high end systems can just barely play it.
 
And my point is the engine is fine. It's the content you put into the engine. The unreal engine is capable of looking GREAT, and they're adding stuff to it too (irrational and epic, both). I think your problem is you're really limiting your scope on what game engines can do. Unreal can make use of every video card tech on the market -- right now it's a top of the line engine. Ut2k3 runs well b/c they are closed maps, limited player poly counts, lower res skins, etc. etc. I assure you irrational is going to up all of those things. They're aiming for pretty and smooth. I can totally justify the use of the engine in my mind.
 
I'm going to turn swaying grass and grass density all the way down before I even load 1 map.

Any competitive player will go to performance settings their first week of play anyhow. Don't even waste time with it.
 
cAn said:
The unreal engine looks good and it runs better then T2 does on current hardware. T:V is still a year and a half away so why wouldn't the developers of T:V aim so that relatively high end systems today are what the game will require when it comes out. In all honesty UT2003 runs amazingly well with full details @1024x768 on a system with 512mb ddr, athlonxp1600+ and a radeon 8500. Those are fairly low end specs.

The grass in that screenshot that was released was 'ok' but it isn't nearly as good as i would think grass should look in a year and a half.
Why not make grass that looks similar to the grass in the movie 'Shrek'? I'm sure current top of the line hardware(3ghz p4 w/ R9800Pro) could handle that in some form. 3dmark2001 has that one demo with the flowing grass, it looks great and runs great.

With current hardware, the slowest that the r9800pro gets is 59fps and that is @ 1600X1200 with "4X AA/8X Qual Aniso"
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1794&p=7

I saw a while ago that someone(maybe thrax when he was talking on Tribes3.org) said that they were planning on TNTG having top of the line graphics when it comes out. I know that the screenshot released is a very early screenshot and the final product will probably look considerably better then that, but as it is now, the graphics are only 'on par' with today's standards.

If you made a game that ran @ 60fps @ 1024x768 with today's best hardware, in a year and a half, that hardware would be about average for most systems.
Click to expand...

Game developers understand that technology expands--they plan for it. Don't worry.
 
Does this mean my current AMD Duron 750@868 (woAH!), coupled with the state-of-the-art Geforce2 MX, won't be able to handle it in a year? ;)
 
TeckMan said:
I'm going to turn swaying grass and grass density all the way down before I even load 1 map.

Any competitive player will go to performance settings their first week of play anyhow. Don't even waste time with it.
Click to expand...

They're not marketing the games to competitive players who don't care about eye candy only. We competitors are important to Sierra and Irrational, but to attract a large new player base the game has to be pretty.
 
cAn said:
They should aim high so that current high end systems can just barely play it.
Click to expand...
I think that would be a mistake. No doubt a game needs to look good to attract people, but it also needs to be playable on a wide range of systems and scalable without the minimum spec users getting less than 10 FPS.

How many casual gamers are going to drop hundreds on new cards, upgrades and systems to play a game they might not be familiar with? It's hard enough for me to find the cash! And even if GF4/9800's are obsolete and cheap enough two years down the road, how many in the mainstream are actually going to have them or be willing to buy and install them?

Reading the PCG HL2 preview, Valve seems to be following this lesson by ensuring DX6/TNT powered systems play alongside mega-machines to reach the largest audience possible.

...on the flipside, Doom3 is supposed to be pushing graphical limits like no other game before it. So it'll be interesting seeing how that works out for id and how it affects the graphics market.

That said, I've been doing a bit of engine research lately with UT2K3 and Raven Shield and I'm pretty impressed. The physics changes between the two games are apparent and both feel complimentary to the past games in their franchises. I didn't even know Raven Shield was UT2K3 until a week after playing! :eek:

I've come across a few maps, some outdoor and hilly, that I've been aching to jet and ski through. I love the animation (facial and movement) the ragdoll bodies, gib vs bloodcloud deaths and texture/model features. My GF4 seems to handle expansive, high up perspectives like the one in Facing Worlds 3 with maxed graphic detail pretty well. I can't wait to see and feel how Tribes is ported! :]

From the big thread:
Thrax said:
First, we have locked down the unreal code, but that doesn't mean the team isn't making changes They have already added volumetric shadows and normal mapping, as well as a host of other improvements and optomizations. They've also totally re-built the physics engine. What we don't want to do is wait for a 3rd party (epic) to deliver something on their schedule that could effect our schedule. So we took the unreal engine as a starting point and are moving forward with that (much like Half-life is based on the Quake engine, but isn't like quake at all).
Click to expand...
No idea if that means Irrational will be adding in whatever code-drops Epic makes, or if they're in their own boat. Either way I'm confident we'll see a graphically pleasing finished product and hope the crispness of T1 makes it in.

My main engine question atm: Is it possible to port maps between games with a bit of elbow grease? Raven Shield to UT2K3, UT2K3 to T:V, etc? Or is the mapping system changed completely from one to the other as soon as the devs get to work?
 
Good summary Kelster.

The devs know the game needs to be playable on low and high end systems.
And they know the fans want the engine to be updated to the latest/greatest graphics card.
What I'm hoping for, is that they continue updating the engine, AFTER the game comes out, so fans will have a reason to continue playing. What better way to keep interest in a game, than to have a graphics patch after a new video card comes out, even if it means downloading new textures.

They got the message, because Thrax responded to my question with the paragraph you see above.
 
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cAn said:
The unreal engine looks good and it runs better then T2 does on current hardware.
Click to expand...
In t2, I almost always get 70-100+ fps. In ut2k3, I get 40+ if I'm lucky, but it often drops below that.
specs: athlon XP 2000+, 512MB ram, gf3
 
cAn said:
the point that i was trying to make is that they shouldn't make a game on an engine that plays well on current low end systems. They should aim high so that current high end systems can just barely play it.
Click to expand...


I disagree..
I believe a system such as

P4 1.5 ghz
Gforce 2 / Radeon 32
256 Ram
Windows XP / 2000

Would run it at 40-50 fps...

But i dont know what will happen. It's coming out in prob 2 years so i might not even play it :(

Damn JR. year will fuck me over.
 
Maybe they should go the Dynamix route and create their own engine that will require a system no more than 6 months old and see how well it goes over....
 
Unreal2 has all types of grass, moss, trees etc. I'd imagine that they'll blend it all together when the maps finished creating a nice lifelike map
 
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