t-200831 Two simple questions.... [Flat] - TribalWar Forums

Two simple questions....

TheOracle
03-22-2003, 07:18 PM
Forgive my ignorance if these have been answered clearly already. Ive only been taking cursory glances at the news.

#1: Why can we drop bombs on what we think is Saddam Hussein yet we cant assasinate him? There seems to be no difference whatsoever between these two methods...yet isnt there some law/treaty/agreement (im going to look it up right now) saying were not allowed to assasinate world leaders, even at time of war?

#2: Anyone have any idea how many Iraqis weve killed already? Why doesnt ANY news source feel this is an important statistic? yes yes im sure its hard to acurately guage since weve been bombing them to hell but, well...im curious.

Rabid Poop
03-22-2003, 07:20 PM
how are we gonna keep track of how many iraqis hae been killed........

TheOracle
03-22-2003, 07:23 PM
ok, i did a little digging:
Article 23(b) of the regulations annexed to Hague Convention IV of October 18, 1907, respecting the laws and customs of war on land: "It is especially forbidden. . . to kill or wound treacherously, individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army."

This is then referred to in the U.S. Army Field Manual 27-10, THE LAW OF LAND WARFARE (1956): "This article is construed as prohibiting assassination, proscription or outlawry of an enemy, or putting a price upon an enemy's head, as well as offering a reward for an enemy `dead or alive.'"

This became international law at the Nurembergu Tribunal: "the Nuremberg Tribunal (1945) expressly ruled that the obligations codified at the Hague Regulations had entered into customary international law as of 1939."

So my question is now twofold: one, how is bombing different than assassination? two...are we TECHNICALLY at war? doesnt Congress have to declare us at war? And if so, there isnt even a vague, grey area that Bush could assassinate Saddam under...it will be strictly forbidden...right?

TheOracle
03-22-2003, 07:24 PM
all i know of is at least 2 Iraqis dead...(NWS) http://friggybum.net/ak74/no%20surrender.jpg

I)rummer*Boy
03-22-2003, 07:25 PM
I think the rule is that we can't assassinate during a peace time.

I)rummer*Boy
03-22-2003, 07:33 PM
kinda interesting

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,918883,00.html

America's decision to directly target Saddam Hussein was deemed legal by experts in international law yesterday, despite the Geneva convention and a presidential ban on assassinating foreign leaders which has been signed by President Bush.
President Saddam, it is argued, can be treated as a fair target because he is chief of the Iraqi military at a time of war. "International human rights law allows you to target military commanders," said Jim Ross, the senior legal analyst at Human Rights Watch in New York. "The Geneva convention gives a great deal of leeway when it comes to attacking combatants."

It is precisely the fear of a retaliatory attack on an American leader that prompted President Gerald Ford to issue a ban on assassinations of heads of state in 1976. Executive order No 12333 declares: "No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination."

Mr Ford's ruling has been signed by every president since, but many have sought to sidestep it. In 1986 President Ronald Reagan ordered air strikes on the presidential compound of the Libyan leader, Muammar Gadafy. Two years later the ruling was "reinterpreted" under George Bush senior in order to target the Panamanian leader, Manuel Noriega. The new understanding was that the prohibition did not apply if a leader was killed as an unintended consequence of an action undertaken or supported by the government.

TheOracle
03-22-2003, 07:38 PM
Another American law:
"Assassination is prohibited at Executive Order 12333 of the United States (December 4 1981) which stipulates, at Part 2, paragraph 2.11: "No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination."

And here to add fuel to one of my questions...when two states are at peace...according to the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes Against Internationally Protected Persons:
"The intentional commission of a murder, kidnapping or other attack...." is a crime. So...uh....i guess it all boils down to how bombing is different than assassination?

edit: hmm..beaten...=

TheOracle
03-22-2003, 07:40 PM
see that leads me to the question why dont we have out best snipers over there? or send in a ****in elite team of something or other..im sure they exist...

Rabid Poop
03-22-2003, 07:43 PM
see that leads me to the question why dont we have out best snipers over there? or send in a ****in elite team of something or other..im sure they exist...

because bombs work better.

I)rummer*Boy
03-22-2003, 07:44 PM
Genius