T:v No Scripting = No Purchase

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LouCypher
05-12-2003, 07:14
Just like to say thank you to the developers for killing client side scripting. You've eliminated any interest I had in the game.

cheezit
05-12-2003, 07:22
somebody didnt read the interview very thoroughly. 1st of all, its unreal engine that doesnt allow client side scripting. they are taking steps to allow some scripts.

Da_Timsta
05-12-2003, 07:42
I'm extremely happy that it turned out this way. Scripts has caused nothing but problems for the franchise. A lot of scripts in T1/T2 give an obvious advantage to the player. I guess I'm the only one who wants everybody to play on equal terms...

Imposter
05-12-2003, 08:24
Some scripts were "bad", but most just made the game more customizable for a player. Hell in T1 scripts made the game for most of us, from jump.cs to a good inventory scripts. Those scripts then became built-in parts of Tribes 2. Thus the scripters ideas and work helped define the next game. We may not have seen those things if not for people like Presto.

LouCypher
05-12-2003, 08:51
somebody didnt read the interview very thoroughly. 1st of all, its unreal engine that doesnt allow client side scripting. they are taking steps to allow some scripts.
If you mean I didn't sit through the whole interview in IRC, you're right. I sent a question to Colosus about possible vehicle gametypes which was never asked, lost interest and went to sleep. Then I check DMAUL's summary here (http://www.pandoranetworks.org/forums/tribes-universe/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3227). Including this part:
Q: UnrealScript as far as I know doesn't support client scripting unless its scripting for an entire mod (so the server would have to be running it.) How is this going to affect client customizability? Will UnrealScript be extended or another scripting language incorporated?
-KineticPoet- Unreal doesn't support client-side scripting. This is very different than T1 and T2, and it's something we'll all have to come to grips with. We're making changes to ensure that client-side customizability is still possible, so don't worry about that. But client scripting won't be as viable, which also means that cheating won't be as viable.
-KineticPoet- I should mention that client scripts are still possible when used in conjunction with a server-side script
-Tesla- It's a limitation that we've had to accept if we want to maintain the integrity of the game.
-KineticPoet- So if the competitive community agreed on particular scripts, they could be run on servers, thus providing a means of "sanctioning" client-side scripts
-KineticPoet- So I hear you guys liked the scripting answer. =) Yeah I figured that'd be a hot topic...we can discuss it more in the coming months
So what else did I miss related to scripting? Look, there are some scripts I have on T2 I don't want to play without. Not cheats, but customizations to default behavior of T2. Favorites scripts, UberZoom, Favorites by Ruleset, QuickMenu, EnhancedServerBrowser, PJ's Buddy Manager, etc. All possible through the excellent clientside scripting ability of T2. Take away all of that and what's left?

KP's answer sounds like "suck it up, it's not happening" to me. I'm very disappointed. I think PenguinOfDoom pretty much summed up my feelings in #t2scripters:
[07:09] <+PenguinOfDoom> Removing clientside scripting because you are too pathetic to code it in is stupid.

Imposter
05-12-2003, 09:04
We're making changes to ensure that client-side customizability is still possible, so don't worry about that.

I wouldn't get too bothered until they give a more in depth answer.

Data
05-12-2003, 09:20
This thread needs: :baby:

LouCypher
05-12-2003, 09:31
I wouldn't get too bothered until they give a more in depth answer.
Customizability != scripting.

That answer sounds more to me like different facial expressions or features, weapons skins, etc.

Console games have "customizability" but no scripting. I don't play console games either.

To me, I believe the next game should have scripting AND just as much functionality and flexibility out of the box that support.vl2 provides scripters in T2. You don't have to allow access to sensitive game information from client scripting to make it "viable" to scripters.

FSB-SPY
05-12-2003, 09:54
:disgust:

I think this is a bad move on their part. Making scripts only work if the server has them (which is how I read it?) is good and bad; mostly bad, however. Script "packs" will be a thing of the past, and each time someone makes a custom script/variation they will have to jump through hoops of fire just to get an admin to take a look at it to "accept" it for the server's useage. How many scripts will Cheater/Red look at before they stop checking 100 E-Mails a day about some new script -- a week, maybe two? :(

Beren
05-12-2003, 10:05
:disgust:

I think this is a bad move on their part. Making scripts only work if the server has them (which is how I read it?) is good and bad; mostly bad, however. Script "packs" will be a thing of the past, and each time someone makes a custom script/variation they will have to jump through hoops of fire just to get an admin to take a look at it to "accept" it for the server's useage. How many scripts will Cheater/Red look at before they stop checking 100 E-Mails a day about some new script -- a week, maybe two? :(

if that turned out to be the case, what would happen is your would get third party script packs being put together for servers to use (although removing everyones own personal versions of things, but that again depends on what things have to be on the server, and what doesn't). Meaning admins wouldn't need to check scripts themselves. These could be updated regularly to allow for upgrades/new scripts, automation support would be even better still.. but it would indeed still be a hoop, but, given the right motivation by someone (or group, such as a panel of people from TW) in the community to be willing to support/update this pack it could work to some level of success. Whether the sacrifice is to big to cut down on cheating, remains to be seen, and can't be seen until its in action.

Voidsinger
05-12-2003, 10:11
Just like to say thank you to the developers for killing client side scripting. You've eliminated any interest I had in the game.

I hate the fact that client-side scripting won't be around. This won't deter cheating at all.

But seriously Lou, what have you done with scripting except showing the community how "cool" you were with glowing assets screenshots and some form of Happymod? People said "Someone has colored mines" and you all proudly showed some screenshot of glowing **** almost saying "neener neener neener, i r bettar than u".

Is that your idea of scripting? I hate the fact that it's gone because I loved the small, quirky scripts that don't change the game much but customized my client to my liking. I have a ton of small personal scripts written by friends that do absolutly nothing cheat-like, like a "missile-launcher" throw script that ditches the ML when I get inside a base (I cycle through my weapons, btw). Those are the scripts I will miss, not your pathetic "Look, I cheat!" attempts.

FSB-SPY
05-12-2003, 10:14
(although removing everyones own personal versions of things, but that again depends on what things have to be on the server, and what doesn't).


Boom. Therein lies my letdown with this scripting announcement...

Menzo
05-12-2003, 10:26
You guys are only thinking in context of T1 and T2. Free your minds.

FSB-SPY
05-12-2003, 10:27
Okay Morpheus -- err Menzo, but without information we can only conclude based on what we have (T1/T2). :P

Voidsinger
05-12-2003, 10:51
You guys are only thinking in context of T1 and T2. Free your minds.

That sounded very Dave-G'ish.

Polaris
05-12-2003, 11:10
I have been saying this from the start (mostly in regards to things like mine-discing). None of us have any idea what we will need so why make assumptions as to what effect having restrictions on scripting will have. Most games have little or no client side scripting and they do quite fine.

jsut
05-12-2003, 11:14
More control over what is and isn't scriptable, but i'm not a big fan of having clientside scripts completely removed. There are so many stupid little things that some players want and other don't, most of which fall into the informational hud category that you just know aren't going to be built into the team.

Obviously it's too early to say anything right now because we haven't been given more detail about what will and won't be possible. But if i can't rewrite a keybind, or create a pretty little HUD to show me my fps that isn't completely clientside, i'm not going to be very happy.

Void|deadjawa
05-12-2003, 11:48
Honestly, what available scripts were actually useful T2? I didnt use any.

Yogi
05-12-2003, 11:53
If they wanted to add client side scripting it's not very hard to do. Something like python or LUA (www.lua.org) is real easy to dump in.

I'm going to wait and see on this one. We don't have the whole picture yet.

Imposter
05-12-2003, 11:55
I'm going to wait and see on this one. We don't have the whole picture yet.