Body Block + Ragdoll Physics?

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JerryGarcia
05-03-2003, 16:31
ok so i body block someone and i only hit their feet what if instead of coming to a total stop they went flying head over heels over my head?... ok you get the idea it doesnt seem feasible but think about the physics of bbing someone.
The momentum of 2 objects come to a complete stop when they collide totally independent of their masses( Heavy, light whatever), seems to me i remember hearing in physics class that momentum is conserved. I dunno seemed like an interesting idea to me.
Maybe when you bb a capper and your going slow and he's goin fast you both go the direction of the capper you just slow him down.

Not saying this is a great idea just something to be discussed.

Zoolooman
05-03-2003, 16:35
Body blocking is great because the person stops regardless of mass. That's the entire point of the skill of body blocking. :]

As far as ragdoll physics go. Ragdolls are for corpses and inanimate objects.

And on another note. We have no idea IF the game even has the karma engine.

They may have bought it before karma (ragdoll physics) was implemented. If so, we will feel sad because they don't have karma to use. :[

PyroTeknik
05-03-2003, 16:39
Uh.
They do have ragdoll physics.

From an IGN interview:
In addition to all that Unreal Tech offers (static meshes, vast outdoor areas, cool lighting, high detail everything, ragdoll physics), Irrational will be adding volumetric shadows and normal mapping, the technique used by Halo 2, FarCry and DOOM III -- the same one many are touting as the future of gaming visuals.

Zoolooman
05-03-2003, 16:42
OMG.

Thanks Pyro. :X

Well then. Volumetric shadows even. I think I'm tingling for the graphical nature of T:V.

Let's hope the gameplay lives up to the eyecandy.

Adept
05-03-2003, 17:41
could definately be wrong about this, but i think they get future improvements to the engine that epic does.. so doesnt matter too much when they bought it. (someone correct me if im wrong, though.)

MaxxCarnage
05-03-2003, 17:49
I personally think ragdoll while you're alive would be great, bein' knocked on your ass... that would add a new element to the game. Bein' knocked assbackwards and oblong in the air and need to jet yourself straight again could potentially bring some new meaning to an MA... but if done improperly... it could suck goatse anus.

Sir Lucius
05-03-2003, 17:53
could definately be wrong about this, but i think they get future improvements to the engine that epic does.. so doesnt matter too much when they bought it. (someone correct me if im wrong, though.)
This is what I tought too. In fact I think I recall trhax mentioning they could wiat till epic implements endless terrains but they didn't want to wait that long so they'd be doing it themselves -- this implies that, yes, they do get engine updates on unreal warfare.

Yogi
05-03-2003, 19:16
could definately be wrong about this, but i think they get future improvements to the engine that epic does.. so doesnt matter too much when they bought it. (someone correct me if im wrong, though.)

I believe they said they've "locked" the source so to speak from Epic and all future improvements are being done in house.

ZOD
05-03-2003, 19:53
It shouldn't stop the person dead, it should send both players flying in the opposite direction they were moving. Now we're talking FUN.

Sir Lucius
05-03-2003, 19:56
It shouldn't stop the person dead, it should send both players flying in the opposite direction they were moving. Now we're talking FUN.

Yea, but this kind of thing doesn't work too well with net coding, or so I'm told.

·liquid·
05-03-2003, 20:25
And on another note. We have no idea IF the game even has the karma engine.

Zooloo may be right about this...

They did say they'd completely rebuilt the physics engine for this game. :\

Sir Lucius
05-03-2003, 20:27
physics engine as in how your players bounding box walks moves is effected by fire, how it jumps, gravity, acceleration.

Karma engine is not the same as a physics engine in video game terms.

ZOD
05-03-2003, 21:03
Yea, but this kind of thing doesn't work too well with net coding, or so I'm told.

It works in Tribes 2 without any problems.

Sir Lucius
05-03-2003, 21:08
Well, I got that bit from dave g, so here's to credible sources.

Thrax Panda
05-03-2003, 21:15
could definately be wrong about this, but i think they get future improvements to the engine that epic does.. so doesnt matter too much when they bought it. (someone correct me if im wrong, though.)That's correct. We get engine upgrades if we want them.

The issue with ragdoll physics is it's quite computationally intensive, requires a massive number of updates per body in ragdoll mode, and extremely sensitive to starting state. It may not be possible to duplicate the data of a ragdoll animation across the network which could look quite bizzare. It's most likely not possible to guarantee an identical starting state across various machines, so it's not possible to just let every client figure out the animation. And the processor load may preclude the server handling all of the "master animations" for ragdoll states (imagine a cluster of 7 people around a flag and 3 mortars landing in their midst killing all 7. That could suck up 200% of a server's processor for a bit :)

We (smart engineering people, not me) are looking at ways to deal with this but it may hot be possible to come to a "perfect" solution.

slacker
05-03-2003, 21:21
That's correct. We get engine upgrades.

The issue with ragdoll physics is it's quite computationally intensive, requires a massive number of updates per body in ragdoll mode, and extremely sensitive to starting state. It may not be possible to duplicate the data of a ragdoll animation across the network which could look quite bizzare. It's most likely not possible to guarantee an identical starting state across various machines, so it's not possible to just let every client figure out the animation. And the processor load may preclude the server handling all of the "master animations" for ragdoll states (imagine a cluster of 7 people around a flag and 3 mortars landing in their midst killing all 7. That could suck up 200% of a server's processor for a bit :)

We (smart engineering people, not me) are looking at ways to deal with this but it may hot be possible to come to a "perfect" solution.
yeah i was thinking the server sends the client an angle of impact, and the clients computer processes the animation

Sir Lucius
05-03-2003, 21:27
Ok, well that may not work for players who are alive, but at least we'll still get dead player ragdolls right? I would imagine it doesn't really matter if dead bodies are dsync'd from machine to machine.

Thrax Panda
05-03-2003, 21:41
That's our current thinking, but there may still be some strangeness. If you can't guarantee that a body is in the same place from client to client then you have to make it not effect play in any way, so a dead body would have to pass thru players in that case. If we solve the problems it could be cool to have a dead heavy spinning across a flag stand and scattering LD like 10-pins. :)

Sir Lucius
05-03-2003, 21:44
I don't think the bodies clip in tribes 1 or 2 anyways. The only remaining factor then is their ammo would have to drop seperatly so looting would be a little differnt.

Hrmmm....cursed laws of nonlinear dynamics... ;|

ZOD
05-03-2003, 23:22
Yes in Tribes and Tribes 2 corpses did not obey collisions. This has had no affect on anything gameplay wise. But Tribes did have a nice feature that Tribes 2 lacks, that is that a corpse would continue to fire its weapon until the corpse was deleted. I loved killin mofos with my dead body that way (Mortars).