Specials opinions are biased toward t1

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SSJBejiita
04-05-2003, 20:29
Sounds weird this is an opinion of mine on his opinions. He talks about packs and everything in a t1 environment restricting t2 judgementation. I could be wrong but this is my view.

Special
04-05-2003, 20:32
Did I ever say I wasn't biased towards T1? I even mentioned in one of my posts here that I had limited T2 experience. The limited T2 experience comes from a crappy game aka Tribes 2.

Sir Lucius
04-05-2003, 20:37
Maybe b/c Tribes1 holds a better definition of what's fun. Tribes 2 is best used for examples of how things don't work.

Special
04-05-2003, 20:49
I am restricting all my posts to a T1 environment because that's the environment I learned to love. I've mentioned before that one of the main reasons I play Tribes 1 is because of its movement. No other game I have played allows you to have such finesse and style in movement, including T2.

T2 was flawed from the beginning; muddy play, bad physics, bad everything, IMO. Perspective was off, things were too dark, it was hard to see other players. Scripters/modders came along trying to tweak the engine so that it was more exciting to play, but it only helped a little bit. If you guild a piece of cow dung with gold, it's still a piece of cow dung.

T2's dev team had a different view of what Tribes was supposed to be. It was to be a heavily team-based game where (unfortunately) vehicles were to played a large role. They cut the holes and expected the pegs to fit. It was supposed to be on a massive scale, bigger and better than T1. I'm guessing the dev team never really played T1, and henceforth never caught the essence of it. They never felt the true rush of being chased by defenders. They never knew how 'real' it felt to be smacked by a midair when you were moving at high speed.

Hopefully with Thrax at the helm of the next installment, he will understand what Tribes is all about. I know from past experience he knows why T1 is fun, and from reading some of his posts, he knows why T2 isn't. He and the dev team have a daunting task ahead of them. Like I mentioned in my other post (http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2 04007) they have to cater to many types of gamers.

My posts are all about attempting to capture the essence of Tribes. It is that little tingle you get when you're skiing around, watching action happen in another part of the map. It's that goosebump-inducing gut-wrenching punch to your face when you know if you don't grab the flag in the cluster, the other team will win the match. It's the feeling you're part of something greater.

R@ND0M
04-05-2003, 21:34
I wasn't aware this was an 'only Special may post' forum, SSJBejita. (idiot)

SSJBejiita
04-06-2003, 09:09
Maybe b/c Tribes1 holds a better definition of what's fun. Tribes 2 is best used for examples of how things don't work.


That's opinionated.

I addressed to this to special not the entire forum.

He has very little t2 exp and lots of t1 exp.

I have middle exp in both areas

snow
04-06-2003, 09:28
so because he plays T1 instead of T2 and you play both that makes your opinion more valid?

no one is stopping you from posting whatever the hell you want to, you can completly contradict him if you feel like it, its a forum post your opinon, but dont abuse or attempt to abuse others for posting theirs.

FSB-SPY
04-06-2003, 09:30
I have more experience in Tribes 2 and I still fully agree with Special.

Colosus
04-06-2003, 12:18
Don't turn this into a ***** session, take the flames and insults to General. Keep it civil.

Sir Lucius
04-06-2003, 14:11
That's opinionated.

I addressed to this to special not the entire forum.

He has very little t2 exp and lots of t1 exp.

I have middle exp in both areas


Not opinion, it's fact. We cannot use mods in this comparison, we have to look at what was given -- base to base. And I'm sorry, but tribes2 base was a mistake. How many ladders are there for it? If the community has to mod the game to make it fun then there is something wrong with the game itself.

Kaiser
04-06-2003, 14:36
T2 was flawed from the beginning; muddy play, bad physics, bad everything, IMO. Perspective was off, things were too dark, it was hard to see other players. Scripters/modders came along trying to tweak the engine so that it was more exciting to play, but it only helped a little bit. If you guild a piece of cow dung with gold, it's still a piece of cow dung.



For the sake of agreement, let's both agree to keep physics out of the conversation. Let's also not talk about anything in reference to Tribes 2 BASE, as Tribes 2 Classic is the dominant mod in competition right now.

Let's look at what Tribes 2 Classic did accomplish:

Vehicles were not the focus.

Even with the improved speeds and mobility, vehicles were viable tools to accomplish a goal. Teams in the highest tiers of T2 classic competition effectively use bombers, shrikes, MPBs, and tanks.

Every pack can be used and is used effectively.

Because of the improved speeds and mobilities, every pack (sensor jammer, shield pack, cloak pack, ammo pack, etc) can be employed while going offense.
Sensor jammer, in passive mode, masks the player from deployed turrets and sensors. This is countered by the deployed camera. All forms of offense use the sensor jammer, from LO, HO, MO, to cappers.
Cloak packs are used for a variety of tasks, including taking out deployed turrets from range and raping gens. The cloakpack is countered by the motion sensor.

Medium armor is now used for other tasks aside from farming.

Because of the improved mobility, in combination with the packs being useful, medium armor is used for a number of roles, including: capping, clearing, and base attack.

Grenades:

Whiteouts, concussion, and regular grenades are all used in competition. They (concs) can be used to knock the shield pack off of the heavy on flag, as well as causing a flag carrier to drop the flag during standoff. 4 choices, but all are used in competition.

Tons of different roles:

Given that the majority of the equipment and armor types were viable tools in competition, the combinations of different equipment allowed for a ton of different roles to be assumed during a match. This was a definite change from the "should I go heavy or light with an e-pack on offense" days of T1. But in that variety, there was no overkill. The number of options were just enough to allow for good versatility, even on traditional cluster maps like Stonehenge or Dangerous Crossing. I think I am correct when I say it is fairly common for a number of players on the upper teams to use almost all three armor types, including 3 different packs in one match.

Inventories:

A total rip-off of "poopfavs," but it was a nice to not have to use a script to pre-select my one of 20 some loadouts. My loadout can be changed on the fly, changing out energy pack for repair pack, flares for whiteouts, etc, etc.


These are a few of the things that I think Tribes 2 classic did "right."
There are MANY things that Tribes 2 did wrong from the get go, and those lists are old and tired, but still VERY valid. My hope is that the DEV team recognizes what was RIGHT with Tribes 2 classic and tries to incorporate that into the next title.

Tribes is my favorite game of all time. I started playing when the "migration" from JEdi Knight happened. This was back when folks like jihadmaster, terminator (you know him as Impact), Goon, ReaListiK, Noodles etc, came over to play T1. There are many things that I miss about Tribes, like the lack of the speed cap, physics, and terrain. Like you said earlier, Tribes 2 classic attempts this, but it doesn't feel like T1. I hope they look at both titles and are able to determine what went right with both and incorporate that into the next sequel. I don't want T1 with prettier graphics. I don't want T2 classic with prettier graphics. I want a combination of both.

Kaiser
04-06-2003, 14:40
Not opinion, it's fact. We cannot use mods in this comparison, we have to look at what was given -- base to base. And I'm sorry, but tribes2 base was a mistake. How many ladders are there for it? If the community has to mod the game to make it fun then there is something wrong with the game itself.

But on the flip side of it, the DEV team would be silly in not looking to Classic to see what was changed and WHY. Given the popularity of it, it should be obvious that this is what a segment of the Tribes community wants.

Sir Lucius
04-06-2003, 14:44
Classic created a huge rift in the t2 community. Not enought like tribes 2 base to some, not enough like tribes 1 base to others. Tribes 2 is a good reason to start over with tribes 3 so you don't have to decide what community you're going to cater to.

Doaln
04-06-2003, 14:47
Don't turn this into a ***** session, take the flames and insults to General. Keep it civil.

That was my first thought.. My second was "SSJBejiita has demonstrated an adequate ability at reading comprehension". WTF do we need a thread to point out his bias (in ToT)? What the hell does "bias" have to do with his ideas if they are good ideas (which, of the ones I've read, are very good ones).

And I agree with the above, Tribes 1 was what was fun, Tribes 2 is what was not. I played Tribes 2 for a couple hours opening day, but decided the HORRID Frames Per Second, SLOW gameplay, weird physis (from what i was used to), dirty maps (both graphically and in the physical layout/makeup of the terrain) weren't fun at all*. To me, even though unintentional, what made Tribes 1 great was skiing. The gameplay became very fast. The terrain already in place lended itself very well to skiing. I also think that maps in Tribes just looked BETTER. Maybe it's because they use more of the "earthy" colors or something, but looking at maps like SB, SH, RD, IR, DC, even Broadside/Blastside, the maps were simple and beautiful. Tribes 2 maps seem big and awkward for some reason. Bigger maps also slow down gameplay.

This is now more a rant than anything, but i don't care.

PS. Doaln has a bias towards Tribes 1.

*I didn't play Tribes 2 again really until Team Rabbit 2, and then only for a week or so. TR2 definitely was fun. Then I played T2 some more when Classic came out.

Kaiser
04-06-2003, 14:52
Classic created a huge rift in the t2 community.

This statement could not be further from the truth.

A rift between who? The competitive scene? The competitive scene fully embraced classic. While it didn't bring the T1 players back in droves, it certainly "saved" the game in the eyes of many (those that played T2 anyway).

And if you think the focal point of T2 is TW, then you are sadly mistaken. It's spread between TWL and IRC, and it has been that way since B++ came out.

Sir Lucius
04-06-2003, 14:53
I'm refering to those V2 loving ******s.

Kaiser
04-06-2003, 14:54
Yea, because 7-8 low-tier "teams" are a "huge rift."

Their twl ladder died, btw.

Sir Lucius
04-06-2003, 14:57
I wasn't keeping score -- I just knew they were loud.

Kaiser
04-06-2003, 15:04
You're dead on with that one. You also had the "martyrs" out in droves at that time, led by our favorite scripter Panamajack.

Locke355
04-06-2003, 15:10
But on the flip side of it, the DEV team would be silly in not looking to Classic to see what was changed and WHY. Given the popularity of it, it should be obvious that this is what a segment of the Tribes community wants.

Popularity doesn't make it a "great" game in this case, nor dictate that it is what any segment of the Tribes community wanted. When your base game is total and utter ****, you will go to anything to hopefully save the overal game