[T3] Shrikes?

Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5

Adroit
03-23-2003, 03:17
Should you be able to shrike cap in T3? Discus...

HomeSlice
03-23-2003, 03:19
No, becuase was the Scoutcap useful in T1? I can think of 1 map where it was actually even attempted to be used in game, and even then a naked light could stop the scout (get in front of it).

Adroit
03-23-2003, 03:22
agreed, I like the idea of having to route cap more than shriking across a map :\

Da_Timsta
03-23-2003, 03:23
I think the shrike in t2 took away a lot of fun in finding caproutes (eventhough routes dont have the same impact on the game as t1) because it just gave you maximum speed without really having to think about anything other than the angle.

It became an interesting "fighter" tho, a very versataile weapon that definently takes skill. I think vehicles is a good idea, as long as you balance them. Personally i would like a rather limited number of vehicles that dont require more than one person to use.

That or no vehicles at all.

R@ND0M
03-23-2003, 08:46
I didn't buy Tribes to play Microsoft flight-sim.. Nor to use huge mechs.
Stick to what made "Tribes" (not StarSiege) good..

jsut
03-23-2003, 12:16
just tweak the eject so you die unless you're going slower than 100 or something.

HomeSlice
03-23-2003, 12:36
I think the shrike in t2 took away a lot of fun in finding caproutes (eventhough routes dont have the same impact on the game as t1) because it just gave you maximum speed without really having to think about anything other than the angle.

It became an interesting "fighter" tho, a very versataile weapon that definently takes skill. I think vehicles is a good idea, as long as you balance them. Personally i would like a rather limited number of vehicles that dont require more than one person to use.

That or no vehicles at all.
I agree, it was to the point that I (a LD) could take a Shrike out there, jump out, gank the flag and get back in the shirke and take one home.

R@ND0M
03-23-2003, 13:54
Shields were also pretty overpowered, and the lasers straight out of star wars were just gay..
I preferred t1's rockets

Thrax Panda
03-23-2003, 18:58
I think the shrike in t2 took away a lot of fun in finding caproutes (eventhough routes dont have the same impact on the game as t1) because it just gave you maximum speed without really having to think about anything other than the angle.Pie in the sky idea - What if when you jumped out of a fighter it auto-piloted back to a place near it's vehicle pad?

Adroit
03-23-2003, 19:17
i dont like that idea Thrax, i like the idea of if you jump out at a certian speed u suicide...that will bring balance.

Creole Ned
03-23-2003, 19:28
I agree with enigma, killing the player if they eject at too high a velocity is probably a better approach than having the vehicle automatically head back on its own (which really doesn't make sense -- although it would be rather funny to watch pilotless shrikes returning home :)). Another solution would be to have the vehicle simply explode if the player ejects when it is traveling past a certain speed. I'm not sure what the rationale for that would be, maybe something about "explosive decompression".

An even easier solution would be to simply make it impossible to get into a one-person vehicle when you have the flag.

Naturally, you'd want to balance this for the non-CTF gametypes, too. I mean, we're not just going to see CTF, right? ;)

R@ND0M
03-23-2003, 20:26
sounds boring

Why would you want things that slow down gameplay (Read: ELF or suiciding on vehicle exit) in a game that has speed as it's selling point..

realism != fun

Beren
03-23-2003, 20:32
I think the idea of dying upon exiting a shrike at a certain speed is a little bit stupid. both when thinking about how it is implemented in game (sounds a bit clumsy), and when the game is set in a time period... IMO it would be a far better thing to have it so a player couldn't eject, even if they wanted to, when traveling over a given speed.

As to no flags in a shrike, that is an interesting idea.. probably a perferable idea IMO.

TerroX
03-23-2003, 20:45
I was surprised to see that you could carry the flag in a vehicle but not carry a turret.

The flag is supposed to represent an Objective - secret hardware or something special, something.

Then I was really surprised to see that a medium could grab the flag and get in a shrike! holy moly thats just wrong and Teamwork? hell no.

Flag as passenger in a Havok maybe, but nothing else - I would not have been annoyed by that at all.

Make the vehicles all powerful and useful but not capping tools too, need some balance and retention of teamwork.

Vehicles which are weaker than a Jugger are mostly a waste of time, RAM, lag, CPU, development... (unless the purpose is pure speed or something).

ZProtoss
03-23-2003, 20:46
Shrike capping is hardly an issue in classic. The only times its ever performed vs a competent defense is if that defense has been entirely ****ed up by an offense. Most cappers in classic on veh maps either go completely on foot, or take a shrike to the outside of a base, run a route and go in. Shrike capping has been basically dead since base. Its extremely easily stopped.

In terms of its role in the game as it is now. It's fit a very good role in classic that isn't entirely overpowered but it's not useless either. If we ever see a T3 I'd hope to see a shrike with the same features of the t2 shrike in relation to its effect on gameplay.

TerroX
03-23-2003, 20:54
To cap or provide support/defense in the air? or both?

ZProtoss
03-23-2003, 21:14
To break down the current roles of the shrike. It has a few main uses. Some of which most people can, a few an extremely limited amount can do.

A.) Escort air/Kill enemy air. : Mainly bombers now in classic. A decent amount of people playing can do this to varying degrees. Most lack awareness to make it fully effective. Most people can also shoot down enemy bombers when not escorted, and have varying degrees of shrike vs shrike skill. Most however don't have awareness.

B.) Cap : All people can use the shrike for this. Shrike capping in terms of grabbing the flag and getting back in is all but obsolete now. Stoppable by any forms of defense. It's main use for capping is transportation a few hundred meters away from the flag for light capping. Or directly grabbing in medium. The only time you see someone getting back into a shrike successfully by himself is if the defense is utterly horrible, or has been dominated by the offense.

C.) Midfield : Extremely few people can do this part well enough to have any impact on a high level match. By extremely few I mean 6 or less people playing the game. That's probably being too generous as it is. Midfield as defined as having a visible effect on enemy offense and enemy chasers by taking them out consistantly with rams. This requires a great deal of awareness to be effective on a consistant basis. It also requires great aim due to the high speeds of classic. (Note: to do consistantly). The effect it can have can be something of an advantage but certainly not a game winner in its own right. It can stop alot of caps/HO that would have gotten through with ease however, making it of vital importance if your team has someone who can do it correctly. But as said, extremely few people in the game can make in impact while being dedicated midfield.

D.) Combo of the above : The people who can midfield well can most always escort other air well. They also tend to double as cappers in key grab situations or if the flag is simply open. As it stands, most people can do a bit of A.) and B.), and hardly any can do C.). Regardless, its vital to the game and its variety, and should definetly make an appearance in T3.

TerroX
03-23-2003, 21:20
Well I guess the whole situation will be totally different if the Shrike has useful weapons next time around.

Blaster.. Hrm, it is hopeless.

An optional homing missile (not locking on players) and it turns into an anti-vehicle weapon that the average player can use (eg shifter missile shrike) but it needs limited ammo for sure, so flares will be more useful than just waiting to die.

And since the concept of ramming players is more effective than actually using the weapons on the vehicle then we can see that its flawed. Otherwise it would have huge ramming spikes on the front etc, another one of those unforseen side effects becoming gameplay ALA skiing.

LoVer
03-23-2003, 21:32
excellent break down of the state of shrike capping in classic ZP. Also very good analysis of the basic uses of the shrike in classic.

R@ND0M
03-23-2003, 21:47
Anything Autoaim == Bad.

G*d some people are idiots.. do you want a Flight-Sim? Or a First Person Shooter.
I'd prefer to have them spend time on making the physics great, than waste time making sure vehicle ejecting speeds are balanced.