[T:V]Laser rifle

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TeckMan
03-20-2003, 17:05
The laser rifle should be removed from the game. It doesn't fit with the other weapons, is overpowered, and is a pain in pubs.

In a game about skillfull weapons with complex leads, why is there a weapon that hits instantly, and with the proper zoom scripts is lead the same at 100m as 10000m. If you check my other thread on flag waypoints, the 1000m blind snipes would be solved by that, but still the problem exists. By allowing a player that's not near the carrier to still make a play, you diminish the role of the escort. A postiion I think we all agree needs to be strengthened. The only threats to a capper should be those that can be realistically engaged by his escorts. It's one of the most powerful weapons, as well as the easiest. It fires straight and takes none of your momentum. Also, it's very ping oriented.

It causes nothing but problems in pub play. In a match the capper would have escorts and a team of offense backing him up in general. However, in a pub, a flag dropped midfield will be hardly contested by the grabbing team, allowing for an easy return for the D. Stay at home sniper D is far too effective in pubs. On offense, O sniping is a pain in the ass that does nothing but annoy the defense.

Please remove this weapon from the game, it does nothing but detract from the experience.

Ragnafrak
03-20-2003, 17:15
that was a problem in tribes 2 (which was a piece of ****)

the laser rifle (although not essential) is a key part of tribes, sorry

Natural
03-20-2003, 17:25
As Thrax mentioned... the power of the laser rifle is a direct factor of the speed of players. In T1 where players could move at great speeds, defensive snipers could often only get one snipe opportunity on an escaping capper--a difficult one at that. T2 was slower.

I believe the sniper rifle should stay, but it should be carefully looked at for balancing in beta. Perhaps the sniper rifle could be a little less variable...require full energy to fire, then cause a small delay before energy begins to replenish. It can easily be tweaked for balance.

TeckMan
03-20-2003, 17:29
I think a modified CG could fufill the role that the laser rifle currently plays.

Relative to T1:
Make the CG slightly more accurate
Significantly decrease damage

The result would be that it becomes much less effective at 0-50m where it's already accurate enough (so only the decrease dmg would come into play) and the disc or GL can do the job.
From 50-150 it would be about as effective as it is now
150m+ it would be much more effective, doing the job the laser rifle currently does but with more skill involved.

Also you could increase the firing rate (and further decrease damage to compensate) just so it's a little more consistant. At long ranges it's currently a lot of luck whether you connect. While it would still do the same damage over time, a faster firing but weaker CG would provide more constant damage.

Also, provide an option to lessen the amount that the screen redens when a player takes damage to combat the increase in firing rate.

Rabid Poop
03-20-2003, 17:40
how about it uses bullets (but REALLY FAST bullets) instead of a laser and you have to lead :shrug:

Javelin
03-20-2003, 19:10
The laser rifle should stay the way it was in T1. It was not in any way shape or form an easy gun to master. And good shots were hard to make. The LD needs this weapon, and would be nerfed beyond repair if it were to be takin out.

Colosus
03-20-2003, 19:53
As Thrax mentioned... the power of the laser rifle is a direct factor of the speed of players. In T1 where players could move at great speeds, defensive snipers could often only get one snipe opportunity on an escaping capper--a difficult one at that. T2 was slower.

I believe the sniper rifle should stay, but it should be carefully looked at for balancing in beta. Perhaps the sniper rifle could be a little less variable...require full energy to fire, then cause a small delay before energy begins to replenish. It can easily be tweaked for balance.

^^^^

I agree. Sniper rifle should remain, but should be balanced during a beta period.

Ragnafrak
03-20-2003, 20:04
teckman have u ever even played T1?

make the CG more accurate? increased fire rate? as effective as a rifle at range? cappers would never even get into rifle range

Voidsinger
03-20-2003, 20:12
That's where the pub vs. competition question arises.

Let's take a T2 pub for example. On a map like DBS (Deadly Birds Song), it's not uncommon to see 4-5 snipers parked on the base hill or the back hills, basically nailing anyone coming in. In pubs, this works, because there is no organized disruptive force to make 5 snipers pretty much useless. In Competition, you can expect 3-4 SJ or epack LOs messing them up. Also, a bigger fault might be put on the cappers, who seldom swerve and use terrain to block any light-of-sight. They take a post-grab discjump and just motor to their flagstand, making their trajectory easily predictable for a sniper.

A lot of us have 3-4 years experience playing this game. Some players/snipers have gotten damn good. That's a given. While the sniper rifle might seem like an "easy" weapon because it allows the LD to hit targets with nearly infinite range, it's not by any mesure an "easy" weapon to master. A good sniper is a thing to behold, just like a super chainwhore or a MA/MD freak. Without the sniper rifle, you wouldn't have epic game endings like 311 v. Rapture on Damnation.

Balance it? Maybe... make bodyshots hurt less, headshots hurt more. Hell, maybe shooting off a weapon or a pack. :) But eliminate it? That'd be taking the easy way out.

Limbo
03-20-2003, 21:42
um, you DO have to lead wit teh laser
if you play LD you would know, you can't just kill a capper without leading, unless they're walking, which i am so damn sure they do all the time

|MrSniper|Nyx
03-20-2003, 23:22
That's where the pub vs. competition question arises.

Let's take a T2 pub for example. On a map like DBS (Deadly Birds Song), it's not uncommon to see 4-5 snipers parked on the base hill or the back hills, basically nailing anyone coming in. In pubs, this works, because there is no organized disruptive force to make 5 snipers pretty much useless. In Competition, you can expect 3-4 SJ or epack LOs messing them up. Also, a bigger fault might be put on the cappers, who seldom swerve and use terrain to block any light-of-sight. They take a post-grab discjump and just motor to their flagstand, making their trajectory easily predictable for a sniper.

A lot of us have 3-4 years experience playing this game. Some players/snipers have gotten damn good. That's a given. While the sniper rifle might seem like an "easy" weapon because it allows the LD to hit targets with nearly infinite range, it's not by any mesure an "easy" weapon to master. A good sniper is a thing to behold, just like a super chainwhore or a MA/MD freak. Without the sniper rifle, you wouldn't have epic game endings like 311 v. Rapture on Damnation.

Balance it? Maybe... make bodyshots hurt less, headshots hurt more. Hell, maybe shooting off a weapon or a pack. :) But eliminate it? That'd be taking the easy way out.

You stole my post!

Slash
03-21-2003, 00:32
It amazes me that after all this time, people still complain about sniping. And they try to somehow divide it into categories like "o-sniping" and "d-sniping". Sniping is sniping no matter which way you cut it. You don't ****ing see people say "o-discing" or "d-discing". If a sniper pisses you off, he's done his job. If a sniper nails a capper, cover the capper better or give more escort. Its not that hard to overcome snipers.

Having said that, I agree that perhaps the sniper rifle needs to be re-examined for T3. Personally I'd like to see a slower recharge rate on it. But definately not less damage. But until then, get the sand out of your vaginas and stop crying you ****ing baby.

Destiny
03-21-2003, 16:39
leave the rifle in ... thx.

Adroit
03-21-2003, 17:24
i like the balance of it in T2 Classic, I believe it should remain the same.

Da_Timsta
03-21-2003, 17:32
i hate hitscan weapons, would rather see an alternative tbh :)

jsut
03-21-2003, 17:40
you still have to lead with the laser, i dunno if it actually counts as hitscan.

Buk Naked
03-21-2003, 18:21
Nothing screws up a pub like 2 or 3 good snipers sitting on a hill just picking people off. Especially if your base is getting owned and you're trying to do anything in light. Worse than getting mortared, chained, disked because you're half way to their base, then...zzzzt...you're dead - you don't even see who shot you. Probably the worst Tribes experiences I've had is in those situations on RC and RD.

I don't think it should be removed, but toned down a little bit to balance it.

And mainly I don't like it cuz I suck at sniping :(

TeckMan
03-21-2003, 20:03
the issue isn't that you have to lead, it's that the leads are pretty much the same at any distance, and it takes none of your momentum, making the leads much simpler to learn.

Yes, it's balanced within the context of the game because the player using it can't go out to get the flag from the capper he just killed, but as far as skill : damage ratio it's pretty imbalanced.

And, like I said, it undermines the role of the escort by allowing someone out of range of the LOs to kill the capper.

R@ND0M
03-21-2003, 20:27
You could always make it have a limited range, or perhaps require ammo.

and I agree, hitscan weapons are the worst in any game, especially ones that do alot of damage.

FOURSTAR
03-21-2003, 23:16
Uh, keep it. But in T2 is seemed like it was really easy to snipe with, T1 was a little bit harder.